Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Work Permits, Employment Qualifications, Employer Problems
Forum rules
While the moderators are happy to help point people in the right direction for legal assistance and to attempt to keep these forums civil and tidy, please bear in mind that an Internet forum is not the place for providing or receiving legal advice or for the creation of any attorney-client privileges or obligations. Also keep in mind that Forumosa and the moderators cannot conduct comprehensive reviews of all laws or legal concepts referenced or discussed within these forums – laws and regulations are updated and amended, interpretations do change, and sometimes the legal landscape can change very fast. Forumosa provides these legal forums for general informational purposes only. By using these legal forums, you agree that the information does not constitute legal or other professional advice and no attorney-client or other relationship is created between you and any other posters on these forums. DO NOT CONSIDER THE FORUMS TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR OBTAINING LEGAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED LICENSED ATTORNEY.

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby ironlady » 09 Oct 2011, 22:58

Jerome Morrow wrote:
ironlady wrote:I am not a lawyer, but I've lived in Taiwan. It only takes one ROC national to "denounce" you for something, and the game is on. You may successfully defend yourself in the end -- often you will, if there is truly nothing to accuse you of -- but in the meantime, you're going to experience a lot of bother and a lot of expense.


Good thing you are not legal counsel for the OP. How many years is it that since you left Taiwan?


I'm in Taiwan each year. And I keep in touch with a lot of people who are living there. Sorry that you still live in a world where everything is equal and fair in Taiwan, but that's not the situation I read about, hear about, and see all the time. Sure, all the animals in Taiwan are equal. It's just that the ones with ROC ID cards are more equal. I love Taiwan, but this is still a fact.
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius

This post was recommended by shawn_c (03 Jan 2013, 22:35)
Rating: 5.88%
Forumosan avatar
ironlady
Goddess of Fornication & Prostitutes (tōngjiān hé jìnǚ de nǚshén)
 
Posts: 8228
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: A place where people can't sleep or teach English in McDonald's
75 Recommends(s)
286 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby steelersman » 09 Oct 2011, 23:15

ironlady wrote:
Jerome Morrow wrote:
ironlady wrote:I am not a lawyer, but I've lived in Taiwan. It only takes one ROC national to "denounce" you for something, and the game is on. You may successfully defend yourself in the end -- often you will, if there is truly nothing to accuse you of -- but in the meantime, you're going to experience a lot of bother and a lot of expense.


Good thing you are not legal counsel for the OP. How many years is it that since you left Taiwan?


I'm in Taiwan each year. And I keep in touch with a lot of people who are living there. Sorry that you still live in a world where everything is equal and fair in Taiwan, but that's not the situation I read about, hear about, and see all the time. Sure, all the animals in Taiwan are equal. It's just that the ones with ROC ID cards are more equal. I love Taiwan, but this is still a fact.


It's that true in most countries? People who carry local citizenship are more equal.
steelersman
Wild Chicken Bus Driver (yě jī chē sī jī)
Wild Chicken Bus Driver (yě jī chē sī jī)
 
Posts: 1979
Joined: 30 Aug 2007, 03:58
9 Recommends(s)
23 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby merchantofstyle » 11 Oct 2011, 10:44

Update: The CLA states that no fines or penalties are valid unless the current school has a pending or valid work permit for the teacher, making this situation nothing more than an empty threat. Anyone in this same situation should consider this thread for their own reference.
It's usually the cover of the book that entices me to pick it up and read it, but that doesn't mean every book with an interesting cover is worth the read.
merchantofstyle
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
 
Posts: 22
ORIGINAL POSTER
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 13:56
Location: Changhua/Taichung

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby archylgp » 11 Oct 2011, 17:33

merchantofstyle wrote:Update: The CLA states that no fines or penalties are valid unless the current school has a pending or valid work permit for the teacher, making this situation nothing more than an empty threat. Anyone in this same situation should consider this thread for their own reference.


Can you provide a link to the source?

Thanks.
archylgp
Gravel Truck Driver (suìshí chē sījī)
Gravel Truck Driver (suìshí chē sījī)
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: 03 Jun 2007, 06:51
Location: [tʰai³⁵.tʂuŋ⁵⁵] /Taizhong/
150 Recommends(s)
30 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby merchantofstyle » 11 Oct 2011, 21:52

I called the CLA today, and that was their response. That's the only source I can say, because it's all I've done.
It's usually the cover of the book that entices me to pick it up and read it, but that doesn't mean every book with an interesting cover is worth the read.
merchantofstyle
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
 
Posts: 22
ORIGINAL POSTER
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 13:56
Location: Changhua/Taichung

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby Jerome Morrow » 13 Oct 2011, 10:06

ironlady wrote: They don't vote, and they generally do not have anything in the line of useful personal relationships to bring to bear on such matters.



What does voting have to do with anything? Can foreigners vote in US elections?
Jerome Morrow
Mastered ordering "beer" in Chinese (jīngtōng le yòng Guóyǔ shuō "píjiǔ")
Mastered ordering "beer" in Chinese (jīngtōng le yòng Guóyǔ shuō "píjiǔ")
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 23 Sep 2011, 20:42

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby ironlady » 13 Oct 2011, 11:17

Jerome Morrow wrote:
ironlady wrote: They don't vote, and they generally do not have anything in the line of useful personal relationships to bring to bear on such matters.



What does voting have to do with anything? Can foreigners vote in US elections?


Those who cannot vote generally lack political influence, and their opinions are not generally regarded as being particularly important, and hence are not usually heeded.
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius
Forumosan avatar
ironlady
Goddess of Fornication & Prostitutes (tōngjiān hé jìnǚ de nǚshén)
 
Posts: 8228
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: A place where people can't sleep or teach English in McDonald's
75 Recommends(s)
286 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby Jerome Morrow » 13 Oct 2011, 18:35

ironlady wrote:
Jerome Morrow wrote:
ironlady wrote: They don't vote, and they generally do not have anything in the line of useful personal relationships to bring to bear on such matters.


What does voting have to do with anything? Can foreigners vote in US elections?


Those who cannot vote generally lack political influence, and their opinions are not generally regarded as being particularly important, and hence are not usually heeded.


So whats that got to do with the OP's situation. He hasn't signed a contract so he cannot break any of the conditions. Simple really.
Jerome Morrow
Mastered ordering "beer" in Chinese (jīngtōng le yòng Guóyǔ shuō "píjiǔ")
Mastered ordering "beer" in Chinese (jīngtōng le yòng Guóyǔ shuō "píjiǔ")
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 23 Sep 2011, 20:42

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby archylgp » 14 Oct 2011, 13:49

Jerome Morrow wrote:
ironlady wrote:
Jerome Morrow wrote:
ironlady wrote: They don't vote, and they generally do not have anything in the line of useful personal relationships to bring to bear on such matters.


What does voting have to do with anything? Can foreigners vote in US elections?


Those who cannot vote generally lack political influence, and their opinions are not generally regarded as being particularly important, and hence are not usually heeded.


So whats that got to do with the OP's situation. He hasn't signed a contract so he cannot break any of the conditions. Simple really.


The problem the OP has is that he was working illegally, so, in fact, has no rights; the school could get away with not paying him at all, unless he wants to turn himself in, of course. That said, if I were him, I would take whatever I could get and then just leave.
archylgp
Gravel Truck Driver (suìshí chē sījī)
Gravel Truck Driver (suìshí chē sījī)
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: 03 Jun 2007, 06:51
Location: [tʰai³⁵.tʂuŋ⁵⁵] /Taizhong/
150 Recommends(s)
30 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Legality of Penalty Clause for Suspicious Contract

Postby Jerome Morrow » 18 Oct 2011, 19:14

archylgp wrote:The problem the OP has is that he was working illegally, so, in fact, has no rights; the school could get away with not paying him at all, unless he wants to turn himself in, of course. That said, if I were him, I would take whatever I could get and then just leave.


Actually not the OP but their friend. Yes in any country if you work illegally there are issues. You can get deported. Your advice is reasonaable. Just take the $$$ and get a new job with an ARC.
Jerome Morrow
Mastered ordering "beer" in Chinese (jīngtōng le yòng Guóyǔ shuō "píjiǔ")
Mastered ordering "beer" in Chinese (jīngtōng le yòng Guóyǔ shuō "píjiǔ")
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 23 Sep 2011, 20:42

6000

Previous




Return to Legal Issues at Work



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 1 visitor

You can open the Start menu by tapping the key with the Windows logo on it.
More tips from David Pogue