Click here to go to our new forums at http://tw.forumosa.com
If you are a Forumosan Regular, when you log in for the FIRST TIME, you must RESET your password by using the Password Recovery system.

Usernames on the new forums must not contain any SPACES and must end with LETTER or a NUMBER; if yours does, you will be prompted to change your Username
Contact us at admin(at)forumosa(dot)com or @forumosa on Twitter or on our Facebook Page if you have any questions or problems logging back in

Why are they asking me to do this?

Work Permits, Employment Qualifications, Employer Problems
Forum rules
While the moderators are happy to help point people in the right direction for legal assistance and to attempt to keep these forums civil and tidy, please bear in mind that an Internet forum is not the place for providing or receiving legal advice or for the creation of any attorney-client privileges or obligations. Also keep in mind that Forumosa and the moderators cannot conduct comprehensive reviews of all laws or legal concepts referenced or discussed within these forums – laws and regulations are updated and amended, interpretations do change, and sometimes the legal landscape can change very fast. Forumosa provides these legal forums for general informational purposes only. By using these legal forums, you agree that the information does not constitute legal or other professional advice and no attorney-client or other relationship is created between you and any other posters on these forums. DO NOT CONSIDER THE FORUMS TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR OBTAINING LEGAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED LICENSED ATTORNEY.

Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby Ovechkin » 24 Jun 2012, 13:49

archylgp wrote:
Ovechkin wrote:I am leaving a cram school for a better teaching position...I am breaking my contract unfortunately, but I'm not happy where I am and love the new opportunity I have.

My contract says verbatim:

If the employee, for an unexpected and unavoidable reason, needs to give an early resignation before the contract period ends, then he/she must give the employer one months' prior notification in writing and help find a replacement before leaving.

Nowhere does it say I have to pay a penalty. I was scheduled to teach summer but I have found a replacement. I have given them written notification, simply stating that 30 days from now will be my last day. My boss is now asking me to put in writing that I am terminating the contract, and take full responsibility (whatever that means), and state the reason why I'm leaving. I also need to include that I was scheduled to teach summer school but now someone is taking my place.

My question is, why does she need all that in a resignation letter? In the US, a resignation letter is a two weeks notice saying, hey boss, thanks for the opportunity but I'll be moving on in two weeks. No explanation or extra info needed. My bosses are the most sneaky liars so I'm always trying to find their hidden motive. Can they use this against me when my new employer applies for my ARC or somehow use this to con money out of my last paycheck?

Has anyone resigned from their contract prematurely? What was the procedure? What does CLA and Immigration need from in order for this to run much smoother? Would I contact CLA or Immigration for more clarification as to what they need to transfer the ARC?

Thanks for any help.


Don't do it !! They don't need anything from you.

Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean the boss can make you do anything. They don't own you. Seriously, don't sign: they can't do anything legally to you for leaving now, but after you say you're going to take on full responsibility, they will try to fine you and what not. DONT' SIGN. And don't help them find a new teacher, either.

What I can't understand is why so many posters (superking here) are against breaking contracts. If you are unhappy at work, that's a big deal; you spend a lot of time there. It's best to find a better situation as soon as possible, which will make your daily life a lot more enjoyable. Bad employers lose employees and that's how it should be. At my current job, there is an extremely rude manager (the typical cranky lady that the boss gives all his work too who works 12 hrs a day). Two Taiwanese employees have quit without notice and they all signed contacts because of this women's abuse. At my first job here (Buxiban), all of the employees at the school quit before 6 months were over. By the time I left, most of their replacements had quit and several replacements of replacements had quit. Don't let this school mess with you. Tell them you won't sign anything at all. Maybe they'll fire you and that will give you a bit of time to take a nice week-long visa run to Thailand or somewhere :)


Yeah, that was my first instinct, which is why i told them i wasn't going to sign anything. They insist that my letter of resignation needs to state a reason. As I stated earlier, in the US, you simply say this is your 30 day notice and thats that. What does the CLA need to have my ARC cancelled from this school and transferred to my next job? They refuse to sign the termination agreement until I give them what they want in writing. I will be contacting CLA to ask specifically what I should do because my employer is not cooperating at all.

On that note...does anyone have the CLA office number in Taipei? They do speak English there yes?
Ovechkin
English Teacher with Headband (bǎng tóujīn de Yīngwén lǎoshī)
English Teacher with Headband (bǎng tóujīn de Yīngwén lǎoshī)
 
Posts: 165
{ AUTHOR_TOPIC }
Joined: 26 Nov 2011, 23:06



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby superking » 24 Jun 2012, 15:27

archylgp wrote:What I can't understand is why so many posters (superking here) are against breaking contracts.


For me it is not exactly the breaking of the contract that is the issue, it is the stuff that goes along with it. I do not see Ovechkin providing an, 'unavoidable or unexpected reason," for this contract break. From there I fail to see why they won't be compliant in a small matter, and why they are angry that the boss is engaging in tit for tat behaviour?

Changing a teacher in the middle of a term is not good for the children, the parents will complain and the boss will get it in the neck. All the teacher wants to do is skip merrily from one job to the next with no hassles. I have seen it many times. Imagine the shitcake that would be produced if the boss said, "I have found someone better, you have one month to find a new job." Would that be ok? But that is what the OP is doing. Fair enough, they provide a new teacher, but what confidence can the boss place in this new person? 4 weeks from now they too might want to dance merrily into the night.

In non-teaching job then fine, contract break all you want and smear the words, "I quit," on a rizzla paper using the yoke of a duck egg. But if you are going to leave a class of kids (or more than one class) in the lurch then you can expect the boss to be pissed off and for there to not be a smooth exit for you. I don't see what harm adding a few extra words to your resignation letter can do to you? If it helps the boss and they in turn help you out a bit more then where is the harm?

I see things too much from my own perspective. It is a failing of mine. Feel free to rip into my post. :D
There are millions of people in the world. And none of those people is an extra. They're all leads in their own stories.

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced. That's why people with no sense of humour have an increased sense of self-importance.
superking
Overpaid Foreign Athlete (duō fù xīn shuǐ guò gāo de wài jí yùn dòng yuán)
Overpaid Foreign Athlete (duō fù xīn shuǐ guò gāo de wài jí yùn dòng yuán)
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: 19 Aug 2003, 05:05



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby CraigTPE » 24 Jun 2012, 15:31

Ovechkin wrote:Yeah, that was my first instinct, which is why i told them i wasn't going to sign anything. They insist that my letter of resignation needs to state a reason. As I stated earlier, in the US, you simply say this is your 30 day notice and thats that. What does the CLA need to have my ARC cancelled from this school and transferred to my next job? They refuse to sign the termination agreement until I give them what they want in writing. I will be contacting CLA to ask specifically what I should do because my employer is not cooperating at all.

At the risk of stating the obvious, we are in Taiwan, not the US, so it really doesn't matter how it's done in the US. In Taiwan, to cancel a contract, you need to sign the Cancel Contract Agreement, nothing more.

You don't need to do anything with your current employer to add another employer. Please carefully read the links I gave you. You process a new work permit with the new employer, and do the paperwork to add them to your ARC. Your current employer is not involved in this process at all. You don't need their cooperation. Also, by adding the new employer before dropping the old one, you don't need to leave the country to complete the process.
Dream! Explore! Discover!
User avatar
CraigTPE
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
 
Posts: 2943
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 17:12



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby superking » 24 Jun 2012, 15:40

CraigTPE wrote:Also, by adding the new employer before dropping the old one, you don't need to leave the country to complete the process.


As I suspected. :D

So, Ovechkin, you can either decide your current boss is being a wanker by not cancelling your ARC or you can decide that your boss is doing you a massive bloody favour by not cancelling you ARC immediately.
There are millions of people in the world. And none of those people is an extra. They're all leads in their own stories.

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced. That's why people with no sense of humour have an increased sense of self-importance.
superking
Overpaid Foreign Athlete (duō fù xīn shuǐ guò gāo de wài jí yùn dòng yuán)
Overpaid Foreign Athlete (duō fù xīn shuǐ guò gāo de wài jí yùn dòng yuán)
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: 19 Aug 2003, 05:05



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby Ovechkin » 24 Jun 2012, 16:06

my new job is ready to get the new ARC/work permit for me, but just need the old one to give me the cancel contract form signed. so from my point of view, for them to refuse to give me the cancel contract form, theyre being wankers. by law they have to do this, so i told them if I don't get it, i will get the CLA involved.

for the record, I'm not leaving the kids in the middle of the semester. the semester ends june 29 and I'm leaving in july. I was scheduled to teach during summer session but I have a coworker who wants to teach summer so i let him have it. that way I don't start summer and leave the kids hanging in the middle. I agree with u completely that u shouldnt leave the kids hanging...and I'm not. of course the boss will be pissed off...however, as stated before, if the employers simply treats their employees DECENTLY, there wouldn't be such a high rate of turnover.

i will talk to my new school and see if they can simply be added to my ARC until the old employer sends in the termination paperwork. thanks for everyone's help.
Ovechkin
English Teacher with Headband (bǎng tóujīn de Yīngwén lǎoshī)
English Teacher with Headband (bǎng tóujīn de Yīngwén lǎoshī)
 
Posts: 165
{ AUTHOR_TOPIC }
Joined: 26 Nov 2011, 23:06



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby cfimages » 24 Jun 2012, 16:10

FWIW, it's common for Taiwanese employees to make up a fake reason why they are leaving. Simply saying "I'm leaving" or "a better job has come along" generally doesn't cut it here.
User avatar
cfimages
Forumosa's Finest
Forumosa's Finest
 
Posts: 9239
Joined: 30 Oct 2005, 15:39
Location: Across from the other side of the road
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-2003



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby tomthorne » 24 Jun 2012, 16:10

superking wrote: Feel free to rip into my post. :D


I think that time and distance from Taiwan has dulled your senses, SK :) .

If the buxiban aren't going to pull a "You owe us two weeks pay for early termination of contract" then I'll eat my underpants. If I'm wrong then I'll eat yours.

OP - don't escalate this to the CLA. That should be a last resort. Also, don't be upfront with them and say why you don't want to sign their resignation letter. Just delay signing it for long enough to get your new school added to your ARC. Say you've got to take it home to check it first. Then leave it at home. Then lose it. Then go through the same process with the next one they give you.
tomthorne
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
 
Posts: 4561
Joined: 20 Jun 2007, 22:55
Location: NanKan



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby CraigTPE » 24 Jun 2012, 16:13

Ovechkin wrote:my new job is ready to get the new ARC/work permit for me, but just need the old one to give me the cancel contract form signed. so from my point of view, for them to refuse to give me the cancel contract form, theyre being wankers. by law they have to do this, so i told them if I don't get it, i will get the CLA involved.

Please read the links I gave you previously. You do not need anything from your current employer to add a second employer. Period. In fact, it's to your benefit to add the second employer before your current employer terminates your contract, and therefore your ARC. Add your second employer, then have them fill out the necessary documents to become your sponsoring employer. Neither action requires anything from your current employer.

Once you get the new employer on your ARC, then give your current employer the cancel contract agreement. Nothing more.
Dream! Explore! Discover!
User avatar
CraigTPE
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
 
Posts: 2943
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 17:12



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby Ovechkin » 24 Jun 2012, 16:15

tomthorne wrote:
superking wrote: Feel free to rip into my post. :D


I think that time and distance from Taiwan has dulled your senses, SK :) .

If the buxiban aren't going to pull a "You owe us two weeks pay for early termination of contract" then I'll eat my underpants. If I'm wrong then I'll eat yours.

OP - don't escalate this to the CLA. That should be a last resort. Also, don't be upfront with them and say why you don't want to sign their resignation letter. Just delay signing it for long enough to get your new school added to your ARC. Say you've got to take it home to check it first. Then leave it at home. Then lose it. Then go through the same process with the next one they give you.


I'd love to settle this in house and not get CLA involved but if theyre going to hold out on giving me the documentation I need by LAW, what choice do I have? also, by law, they cannot hold wages from your last paycheck. one call to CLA should have that taken care of. i told my bosses I'd like to leave on good terms but unfortunately, they dont want to go that route.
Ovechkin
English Teacher with Headband (bǎng tóujīn de Yīngwén lǎoshī)
English Teacher with Headband (bǎng tóujīn de Yīngwén lǎoshī)
 
Posts: 165
{ AUTHOR_TOPIC }
Joined: 26 Nov 2011, 23:06



Re: Why are they asking me to do this?

Postby superking » 24 Jun 2012, 16:22

tomthorne wrote:I think that time and distance from Taiwan has dulled your senses, SK :) .

If the buxiban aren't going to pull a "You owe us two weeks pay for early termination of contract" then I'll eat my underpants. If I'm wrong then I'll eat yours.


I suspect you are right TT old chap. Plus, the thought of having to eat your underpants is more than enough for me to leave all this alone! :D You having to eat mine would be a treat for you, what with them smelling of roses. I've never had that two weeks thing pulled on me. Is it a new tactic in these austere times?

And to Ovechkin, I hope everything works out well for you. Pity your replacement. :) You do not need the cancel contract form, as Craig has told you.
There are millions of people in the world. And none of those people is an extra. They're all leads in their own stories.

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced. That's why people with no sense of humour have an increased sense of self-importance.
superking
Overpaid Foreign Athlete (duō fù xīn shuǐ guò gāo de wài jí yùn dòng yuán)
Overpaid Foreign Athlete (duō fù xīn shuǐ guò gāo de wài jí yùn dòng yuán)
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: 19 Aug 2003, 05:05



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Return to Legal Issues at Work



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 0 guests