Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby finley » 18 Oct 2011, 15:38

The security guard's excuse? He thought it was someone hitting their child, so didn't bother checking.

If that wasn't so frightening it would be hilarious. I'm lost for words.

On a daily basis in London, even (especially!) on public transportation, I witnessed tons and tons of really anti-social activities. I experienced them every day in my job.

The crucial point about the bystander effect is that it happens only when there are plenty of other people around (basically, whatever's going wrong is Somebody Else's Problem). When there is nobody else around, people will (usually) do what they can to help someone in trouble.

To that extent, dense cities will predictably and reliably produce antisocial behaviour, or at least callous behaviour. Yet we keep building the bloody things, and China builds them denser, uglier, and more depression-inducing than most countries.
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby sandman » 18 Oct 2011, 15:58

This morning's Taiwan news reported an incident where a couple were having a fight and the woman got hurt, and not even the security guard whose office was very close to the fighting couple went to help. The security video shows two minutes of loud screaming and fighting. The security guard's excuse? He thought it was someone hitting their child, so didn't bother checking. Nobody else came out to help, either.

Heh! :lol: In my hometown they have a special curtained-off section in the ER department for people who get their lights punched out for getting involved in "domestics," so that the assault on the good samaritan can't continue in the hospital. You don't do it. Unwrap yourselves from your rose-coloured cotton wool and wake the fuck up!
Or how about that wee Malaysian exchange student who got filmed during the London riots. Assaulted by "fine upstanding BRITISH! goddammit!" citizens and then had his backpack rifled by other "fine upstanding BRITISH, goddammit! citizens." Nobody did jack shit.
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby Chris » 18 Oct 2011, 16:07

finley wrote:
The security guard's excuse? He thought it was someone hitting their child, so didn't bother checking.

If that wasn't so frightening it would be hilarious. I'm lost for words.

On a daily basis in London, even (especially!) on public transportation, I witnessed tons and tons of really anti-social activities. I experienced them every day in my job.

The crucial point about the bystander effect is that it happens only when there are plenty of other people around (basically, whatever's going wrong is Somebody Else's Problem). When there is nobody else around, people will (usually) do what they can to help someone in trouble.

I mentioned Kitty Genovese as a case in which witnesses to someone in dire need of help did nothing, but I didn't bring up the bystander effect because, as you can see in the video, there are no bystanders; just some lone (and occasionally paired) by-walkers. The alley seems practically deserted.

Also I wonder if anyone made any phone calls or reported the incident to nearby businesses off camera. I'm particularly thinking of the motorcyclist who came to a stop and the woman with her child. It may be that more went on than met the eye, disgusting and inexcusable as the chain of events may be.
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby pgdaddy1 » 18 Oct 2011, 16:13

GuyInTaiwan wrote:I'm glad someone finally brought up the bystander effect. I watched something a few years ago where someone (Michael Moore?) set up a couple of experiments in major English speaking cities in English speaking countries and found people to be just as unlikely to get involved.

Also, the notion that this kind of thing happens in highly concentrated areas in Western cities doesn't match my experiences. Once, when I was living and working in London, I was walking from a school to White City Underground Station. It was about 3:30pm. From a long distance away, I could see a group of about a dozen kids really roughing up a couple of other kids. As it was near the Tube station, there were lots and lots of people in suits (it's also near the BBC offices of all places!) walking past. No one stopped to help the kids being bullied. When I got close, I tried to intervene, but was then threatened and chased off by the dozen or so teenagers doing the roughing up. A group of adults could easily have dealt with the little ruffians, but they chose not to (though they probably complained later to someone about kids these days being little shits, having no respect, etc.). On a daily basis in London, even (especially!) on public transportation, I witnessed tons and tons of really anti-social activities. I experienced them every day in my job. Whenever I tried to deal with any situations, I would find myself on the receiving end. London, as a society, was every bit as callous and dysfunctional as China sounds, and the recent riots have certainly shown that. Is Australia, where I am from, better? Probably, I'd say, but I wouldn't like to have to put money on it because I could end up losing my money.

Also, I've written before about how my wife (then girlfriend) and I intervened in a pretty bad situation (that had obviously been going on for some time before we were driving past and I saw it) on the main street of Sanxia where a guy threw his girlfriend around, then tried to drive off with her hanging out his window while a crowd of maybe one or two hundred people looked on. When the police arrived, he openly tried to bribe them and wasn't arrested. My wife gave the police her contact details as a witness and was never contacted.


Yes, you see antisocial behaviour all the time in the UK, and not just in the big cities either- although they are worse. It's the fear of getting set upon or knifed that prevents people from intervening. Having said that, if I saw a situation where someone was clearly being harassed or attacked, rather than a gang fight where everyone is equally responsible, I would find it difficult not to intervene. Luckily I never have, or I probably would have ended up dead by now.

I remember a good few years back, a woman was dragged across six lanes of traffic in central London, then assaulted and raped in Regents park, all in broad daylight. The drivers did nothing. Maybe they were in a rush to a business meeting or on the way home. There was rightly a big fuss about it in the media, but actually it didn't surprise me because that is what British people are like- don't like to get involved with other people's business.

Once on the Tube I was near set up by a bloke because over an armrest (he wanted the whole armrest and didn't want to share). He got up, all 6ft 3 of him, and was threatening to hit me. Somehow I managed to diffuse the situation; but I doubt that if he had attacked me that anyone would have helped.

But surely this is a different phenomenon we are talking about here ? I am pretty sure that if a little kid, or anyone, was mown down in the street in the UK, passers buy would stop straight away to help, at least to move her out of danger and call the emergency services.

It's actually of credit to the Chinese that this has caused such a big uproar. The two drivers have been arrested, well that's fine, as long as they are the right drivers and not just random people selected to take responsibility and save the government face, as seems to happen in China. But it will be interesting to see if there are any repercussions at a higher level, such a government information broadcasts on TV about civil duties. There are not many good things about living in authoritarian states, but one of them is that people do what the government tells them to.

The Chinese government has proved that it doesn't put much value on an individual human life, nor does it really care about how China is perceived abroad. Any change is going to come within and when the leadership feels like changing- but social change can be effected in China more more easily that in a free country.
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby finley » 18 Oct 2011, 16:27

sandman wrote:
This morning's Taiwan news reported an incident where a couple were having a fight and the woman got hurt, and not even the security guard whose office was very close to the fighting couple went to help. The security video shows two minutes of loud screaming and fighting. The security guard's excuse? He thought it was someone hitting their child, so didn't bother checking. Nobody else came out to help, either.

Heh! :lol: In my hometown they have a special curtained-off section in the ER department for people who get their lights punched out for getting involved in "domestics," so that the assault on the good samaritan can't continue in the hospital.

Well yeah, but this is the land of Eight Ace and Rab C Nesbitt we're talking about, no? ;) The other side of the coin is that for every good Samaritan who gets a kicking, hopefully are there half a dozen others who prevent something really, really bad from happening. The lesson here surely is that if you're going to intervene, you need to either be wearing riot gear or be prepared to deliver enough violence to come out on top; if not, at least call the police. And the point about that particular story is that he was the bloody security guard. His JOB is, like, to ensure security. Being a fat git who spends his working life playing with his knob in a little prefab hut is not a valid excuse.

I mentioned Kitty Genovese as a case in which witnesses to someone in dire need of help did nothing, but I didn't bring up the bystander effect because, as you can see in the video, there are no bystanders; just some lone (and occasionally paired) by-walkers. The alley seems practically deserted.

I didn't actually watch the video. In that case, we can explain it away simply by noting that it's in China.
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby the bear » 18 Oct 2011, 16:42

jdsmith wrote:
pgdaddy1 wrote:
No- what would you have done if you had been there ?


I would have told the mother way down the street to make sure her daughter didn't walk into the street and get hurt...like I do ALL the time here and abroad.



You would have walked up to a woman whose daughter had just been run over by two trucks and told her not to let her daughter walk in the street? How sweet of you. :whistle:
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby asiababy » 18 Oct 2011, 16:47

sandman wrote:

This morning's Taiwan news reported an incident where a couple were having a fight and the woman got hurt, and not even the security guard whose office was very close to the fighting couple went to help. The security video shows two minutes of loud screaming and fighting. The security guard's excuse? He thought it was someone hitting their child, so didn't bother checking. Nobody else came out to help, either.


Heh! In my hometown they have a special curtained-off section in the ER department for people who get their lights punched out for getting involved in "domestics," so that the assault on the good samaritan can't continue in the hospital.


Fair enough, but I hope that if I ever have the bad luck to have a guy pull me around by the hair whilst threatening me with a knife on the street, someone might be kind enough to call the police, not just wait to see the whole turn of events on the news the next morning. Everyone that looked out their window probably thought someone else would make the call.
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby jdsmith » 18 Oct 2011, 16:52

the bear wrote:
jdsmith wrote:
pgdaddy1 wrote:
No- what would you have done if you had been there ?


I would have told the mother way down the street to make sure her daughter didn't walk into the street and get hurt...like I do ALL the time here and abroad.



You would have walked up to a woman whose daughter had just been run over by two trucks and told her not to let her daughter walk in the street? How sweet of you. :whistle:


This kinda precedes the accident, dunnit? :wink:
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby the bear » 18 Oct 2011, 17:15

jdsmith wrote:
the bear wrote:
jdsmith wrote:
pgdaddy1 wrote:
No- what would you have done if you had been there ?


I would have told the mother way down the street to make sure her daughter didn't walk into the street and get hurt...like I do ALL the time here and abroad.



You would have walked up to a woman whose daughter had just been run over by two trucks and told her not to let her daughter walk in the street? How sweet of you. :whistle:


This kinda precedes the accident, dunnit? :wink:


....sorry got confused by all them streets....you mean street as in some kind of time flow where "way down the street" means "at an earlier point in time" before the accident happened.... as you were...
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Re: Hit and run toddler in China ignored by passers by

Postby Lo Bo To » 18 Oct 2011, 18:11

I think I remember last year or so seeing a video posted here from the Taiwanese news of an old lady getting hit by a car. She landed at the side of the road and people seemed to just walk by non-chalently.

If that were the street of any Canadian town or city (I only use Canada as an example cause that's where I am from and know) people would have moved into action and assisted any way they could have. How do I know? Cause I've been at the scene of a pretty gruesome accident in Canada, not involving a child but horrible none the less. There were about 10 of us on the scene to help a guy who got pretty FUBAR'd.

Where are you people who are saying this would happen where you are from from?

I'm not saying this is how things always play out in Taiwan or China but this is an extreme example of how thing too oftenly do. I've never been at the scene of an accident back home and seen no one help. I've been at the scene and been involved in one myself here, where people just stood by mouthes agape doing nothing.

To give some credit, a few months ago I saw an accident where a really nice woman was there immediately helping a your woman who got hit pretty bad.
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