Anyone ever try importing a bike/car from overseas?

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Re: Imported a DRZ400SM

Postby hawaii88 » 22 Nov 2007, 12:06

TienMouBen wrote:I was born and raised here, so when I moved back a year ago, I definitely wanted a "heavy" bike (I can't stand scooters).

When living in Denver, I had the privilege to know of one of the world's foremost experts on carbureutor set-up, and through a friend a sales manager at Fay Myers...............All told, I'm out just about a cool 1000USD, not to mention a "lost" 4 months, over just buying the bike here . . . but at least I'm up 15 horses hehe.


That's a really nice bike you got there. It looks like you replaced the front fender with a sharper-looking KTM fender.
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Postby hawaii88 » 22 Nov 2007, 12:33

Anybody ever use a carnet to bring a motorcycle or car to pass through Taiwan?

For those that don't know what a carnet is, it's temporary import paper, stating that:
1. you're just passing through, and you aren't planning to leave the motorcycle / car there
2. and that you promise to take your vehicle out of the country within a declared timeframe.
3. you agree to pay all import duties/taxes if you leave your vehicle.

A carnet grants temporary import status and unemcumbered vehicle access. It can also be attached to your passport, and you would have to show proof that you've shipped your vehicle, otherwise you'd have to fork up the cash.
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Postby urodacus » 22 Nov 2007, 13:42

A carnet might work with a tourist visa, but probably not with any kind of resident visa.
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Postby hawaii88 » 23 Nov 2007, 04:56

I'm planning to visit Taipei as a tourist, passing through and into Japan/China. I'm looking for anyone that's actually used a carnet with their bike/car in Taiwan.
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Postby urodacus » 23 Nov 2007, 13:42

a couple on a round the world trip landed their landcruiser in a shipping container in Kaohsiung port, drove around the island and then left again, according to recent posts from Belgian Pie. they are on a world record longest trip around the world: 23 years so far. I guess they used a carnet de passage.

I do know they had lots of trouble and only good guanxi and connections with an MP allowed them to process the import fast enough to actually use their time here in the car rather than having to catch the train...
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Some UPDATED Information About Self Imports

Postby llary » 22 Feb 2009, 17:08

I have been looking around the forum for info on DIY car imports to Taiwan. There is very little information out there in English and the info is out of date by many years. There is, however, an amazing Chinese site that lists every detailed step, pitfall, advantage and cost involved with self imports: http://car2tw.com

If I have time I will try to translate some more of the important bits, but for now here is an example of how much you are being gouged if you buy a foreign marque from a Taiwanese dealer:

Translated directly from http://car2tw.com/dutyexample6.aspx

某人於2008年5月去美國加州出差,喜歡上一台全新跑車Porsche Cayman 2-door S Coupe, 6-Cyl, 3400CC (2007型式),約US$56,000,手排,比較在台灣買同型式進口跑車,何者划算?


In this example somebody goes to California on business and likes the look of a Porsche Cayman S. The US price is approx $56,000 (manual/stick). How does the Taiwan dealer price compare?

如個人進口跑車至台灣,其應繳納進口稅費之計算方式:
依B/B其離岸價格(FOB) =約US$41,000。
依N.A.D.A.車身價格為FOB US$$49,300。
上列兩項價格擇其低者,故離岸價格(FOB)=US$41,000。


To import a sportscar into Taiwan you need to calculate import tax with the following method:

- Check the Kelley Blue Blook FOB value (around US$41,0000)
- Check the NADA guide FOB value (around US$49,300)
- Use the lowest of these two prices for your final FOB value

運費(F)=US$1300
保險費(I)=US$66(以實際支付之保險費核計)
起岸價格(CIF)=US$42,366(FOB+I+F)
完稅價格=US$42,366×30.5=NT$1,292,163
A、進口稅=完稅價格×20.3%=NT$262,309
B、貨物稅=(完稅價格+進口稅) × 30%=NT$466,342
C、營業稅=(完稅價格+進口稅+貨物稅) × 5% =NT$101,041
D、推廣貿易服務費=完稅價格×0.04%=NT$517


Freight (F): US$1300
Insurance (I): US$66
CIF Total: US$42,366 (FOB + I + F).
Dutiable Value: US$42,366 x 30.5 = NT$1,292,163

A: Import tax = dutiable value x 20.3% = NT$262,309
B: Excise duty = (dutiable value + import tax) x 30% = NT$466,342
C: Business tax (VAT) = (dutiable value + import tax + VAT) x 5% = NT$101,041
D: Business promotion service fee = dutiable value x 0.04% = NT$517

本例應繳進口稅費=進口稅+貨物稅+營業稅+推廣貿易服務費=NT$830,209
其他如運費+報關費+倉儲費+ARTC驗車費等等 = NT$120,000


Therefore the total fees for import are import tax + excise duty + VAT + business promotion fee = NT$830,209. Other fees are transport + customs clearance + warehousing + ARTC (emissions and safety checks) etc. = NT$120,000

故買新車運回台灣,實際花費為=56,000*30.5+830,209+120,000=NT$2,550,209

而在台灣買一台2007中古Porsche Cayman S Couple大約是410萬, 請參閱保時捷台灣總代理永業公司,此車里程數為4,260 km,掛牌年度為12/07, 價格為NT$4,122,000, 顏色為 Arctic Silver Metallic.

也就是說買台新車,再進口至台灣, 比起在台灣買中古車, 大約可省台幣150萬左右.


The total price to import a new car into Taiwan is therefore 56,000 * 30.5 + 830,209 + 120,000 = NT$2,550,209

To buy a USED 2007 Porsche Cayman S in Taiwan is around NT$410 million (refer to Porsche's approved used cars where the same car with 4,260km on the clock and a registered date of 12/07 in Arctic Silver Metallic is priced at NT$4,122,000).

In other words, a DIY import of the same car bought abroad will save you around NT$1.5 million.

臺灣加入WTO後,將採取分年調降小汽車進口關稅,也就是未來進口汽車會更便宜.

自己買新車運回台灣唯一的問題是保固及事後維修, 這簡單, 引擎壞了就換顆新引擎,電腦壞了就換顆新的,沒事就回總代理保養(其他保養廠搶著要做您Porsche的生意,因為利潤太高了). 您甚至把車全撞爛了, 150萬也修得好.

您還知道個台灣總代理不能說的秘密嗎? 在台灣保固只有兩年,在美國的保固期則長達四年. 在台灣保固期內定期維修,要付材料費, 人工費則免費, 在美國四年的保固期內定期維修,材料費及人工費均免費,且保養時,免費提供代步車使用一天,無里程限制,在台灣材料費較美國貴, 人工費較美國便宜. 所以總代理賣車賣得很貴, 賺您一大把, 連事後維修保養也不放過您,再賺您一小把(四年維修保養至少也要好幾萬元),參閱車商暴利。


Once Taiwan has entered the WTO the rates of import duty will be reduced year-on-year so in future the cost of DIY imports will be even lower.

The only problem with importing your own car is the warranty and service, but it's pretty simple - if the engine fails, replace it with a new engine. If the computer fails, replace it with a new computer. For regular service just take it to the main dealer (everyone will want to service your Porsche because the margins are so high). If you write off your car, NT$1.5 million will get it sorted.

And do you want to know another secret of the Taiwan dealers? In Taiwan the warranty is only two years but in America it's four years. During Taiwan's warranty period you have to pay for parts but in America any warranty service or repair is completely free. Porsche America will also provide a replacement car for the day with no mileage limit. In Taiwan the parts are all more expensive than America but of course the labour is cheaper. So the main dealer is gouging and making a huge profit from you - not just when you buy the car but through its entire lifetime.
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Re: Some UPDATED Information About Self Imports

Postby Captain Stag » 22 Feb 2009, 20:55

Good info...thanks dude!
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Re: Some UPDATED Information About Self Imports

Postby plasmatron » 23 Feb 2009, 01:45

Llary wrote:In other words, a DIY import of the same car bought abroad will save you around NT$150 million.


Llary mate... There's quite a lot going wrong with your cost break down and the source of your info...

For starters you're translating the claimed NT$150萬 saving as NT$150million, which is a little optimistic... Next the exchange rate today is NT$34.8 to US$1... Also I'm pretty sure TW customs will chose the *higher* of the two book values available, but even if we go with the lower $41k book value, ignore the suspiciously cheap freight and insurance, assume that the quoted US dealer price of US$56k is FOB not EXW (unlikely but the link doesn't say), ignore the fact that the manual transmission is likely to incur further homologation tests than the TW dealer's auto cars and re-run the maths for the for the American 2007 Cayman S 3.4l mentioned in your link:

Cost: US$41,000 (book value)
Insurance: US$66
Freight: US$1300
TOTAL: US$42,366 x 34.8 =
NT$1,474,337 Dutiable CIF value at customs:

A: Import tax = 1,474,337 x 20.3% = NT$299,290
B: Excise duty = 1,474,337 + 299,290 x 30% = NT$532,088
C: Business tax (VAT) = 1,474,337 + 299,290 + 532,088 x 5% = NT$115,286
D: Business promotion service fee = 1,474,337 x 0.04% = NT$590
TOTAL: NT$947,254 in taxes and excise [don't forget this is based on the generous CIF price]

Actual US price paid to dealer US$56,000 x 34.8 = NT$1,948,800
Plus TW customs and excise based on book value: NT$947,254
Plus registration etc. : NT$120,000 [they claim, personally I think that's optimistic]

Total ideal world landed cost for the American DIY import 2007 Cayman S 3.4l : NT$3,016,054

The http://car2tw.com link and your figures incorrectly claim the same model used 2007 Cayman S 3.4l in TW costs NT$4,100,000...
But the actual link they are referring to on their own page to the Porsche locator website says the 2007 Cayman S 3.4l is NT$3,300,000... :ponder:
http://ucl.porsche.de/tw/ucl/clients.show_scar?sid_=132288963CE043A8BE1579C6FE34043&fin_=WP0AB29857U781880&caller_=&cars_=&gflg_=
Image

Cost of a used 2006 Cayman S 3.4l from the Taiwan dealer: NT$2,750,000 (one year older but readily available for comparison)
http://search.ruten.com.tw/search/s000. ... =0&o=2&o=3
Image

Even if we take the highest official online Porche finder TW price, NT$3,300,000 and the lowest conceivable DIY import price, NT$3,016,054, in the real world after haggling at the dealer and factoring in real world CIF and on the road costs and time and hassle for the DIY import, there's really not much in it... :idunno:
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Re: Some UPDATED Information About Self Imports

Postby maunaloa » 23 Feb 2009, 02:37

So this means you can piggy-back on the emissions, etc., test that the major importer did for a given model vehicle, motorcycles included?
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Re: Some UPDATED Information About Self Imports

Postby llary » 23 Feb 2009, 04:28

Hey plasma, just FYI these guys are posting info based on real world experience. I would give them a break over exchange rates because everything else is spot on.

I can verify the shipping and insurance costs because I have personally dealt with the company used by one of the dudes posting a 'real world' import report of a Jeep on their blog. I asked at the Taichung Porsche dealer a few months back and the lowest they will sell a brand new Cayman S is NT$4 mil flat. That's $1 mil more than a worst case DIY import which is more than enough money to make me think it's worth the arseache. Even on the old tax scheme I worked it out around NT$3.6mil all-in and at the time you were not just getting the $400k saving but a newer model since Porsche Taiwan are about 2 generations behind.

The Taiwan Porsche dealer does offer manual transmissions but it doesn't matter because each car runs through the ARTC as a completely independent model.

One of the most useful things on that site is the info on ARTC.. they have a ridiculous amount of info on general modifications and tweaks to specific models to get a first time pass. The only other info I ever found was about 5 years old from when the commodity tax was 60% so this stuff is very welcome.

I am looking at importing a car (not a Porsche) later this year because I can't buy it in Taiwan so I guess we'll find out for sure. I am confident in the math, I am just worried about passing the ARTC.
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