Motorbike Safety Training Courses

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Postby x08 » 10 Nov 2006, 14:23

joesax wrote:
x08 wrote:... on a side note... I've noticed that driving "safely" here is quite often just as dangerous as not safely... because people expect you to do stupid and dangerous things, and your "safe" driving/riding just interrupts the flow of traffic..
I think I more or less agree with you in principle but not in the way you've expressed it. Doing stupid and dangerous things is of course stupid and dangerous wherever you are.

Driving safely means being aware of the all-round road situation, predicting what's going to happen next, and planning what you're going to do about it. It does involve some degree of flexibility. Of course if fixating on a particular pattern of driving leads to more danger for yourself and others, then that's not safe driving, it's dangerous driving.


for example.. not flooring it the moment the lights turn orange? slowing down before turning onto another road? keeping in YOUR lane despite the fact that the stupid lanes aren't even straight?

.. and as for predicting what's gunna happen... well... we try our best, but they ride/drive so unpredictably here that it can be difficult sometimes.. though this primarily refers to old people, wannabe gangsters, taxi and bus drivers and mothers with more diamond rings than her children have underwear combined..

the only real SAFE way to drive here is either a) don't drive, or b) floor it until you're in front of everyone else and stay in front at a nice distance, dead in the centre of your directional side of the road (ie. on the line for 2 lanes your way) to keep the maximum clearance on each sid..

as such, i support the idea of the safety course.. but i also agree that the majority of taiwanese won't be interested... there's nothing wrong riding the wrong side of a high speed road where the wrong side is the INSIDE corner with absoloutely no visibility.. on your 50cc scooter that hasn't had it's oil changed in 5 years, and a toddler STANDING in the footwell.. oh and don't forget, helmets are only there to keep the cops off your back, not for safety.. same goes for mirrors..
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Postby llary » 10 Nov 2006, 15:01

For all that Forumosans and foreigners in general complain about Taiwanese riding/driving, I would have thought this thread would have got more support, or at least a bit less of the 'nah, won't work, sod off' attitude.

Yes, there are always a million hair-brained schemes going on in Taiwan that never go anywhere but if Stefan does manage to get something off the ground with genuinely experienced instructors then I for one would jump at the chance to benefit. If it's pushed as a for-foreigners thing instead of yanky-doodle-is-here-to-show-you-how-it's-done then maybe at least a few Taiwanese riders will get jealous and come along for the face value/English show-off potential/whatever. I certainly know plenty of Taiwanese scooter/bike/big bike riders of all abilities who would feel no shame in learning from this kind of course.
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Postby Stian » 10 Nov 2006, 21:28

Two things saved my ass in Taiwan.

The abilety to observe trafick and plan ahead.

The abilety to brake a 750 from 60km/h to full stop in 3 meters.

I finished the closed track part off the big bike course and had started driving on public roads with instructor befour education forced me to quit, but the things I learned was knocked so hard into my head that is will stick with me forever. :notworthy:

I think all Taiwanese would join a course if there was anny benefit from being thought by a smart ass white jerk. eatch pay 100 buck and the one wining a driver competition later get the jackpot. All off them will join because they all think they could beat Valentino Rossi.

Or the other thing I mentioned about having a inshurance company offer a reduction in the payment for taking the course.
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Postby Dangermouse » 11 Nov 2006, 00:05

The abilety to brake a 750 from 60km/h to full stop in 3 meters.


3 metres? Are you sure?
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Postby x08 » 11 Nov 2006, 01:35

the whole deal with the insurance companies sounds like a good idea, much like MSF endorsement... but I'm still not aware of any insurance companies for big bikes ~~ only cars and scoots

PS. I would love to join the course if it was a qualified instructor.. I know i still have a lot to learn.. especially about emergency braking
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Postby Stian » 11 Nov 2006, 01:51

Dangermouse wrote:
The abilety to brake a 750 from 60km/h to full stop in 3 meters.


3 metres? Are you sure?


15meters in Taipei because the roads are soaked in cheap (multismoke) two stroke oil from betlenut oil company. :loco:

A taiwanese nead 30meters because there rider manual tell you not to use the front brake :eek:

I'm quite shure it was 3 meters, but the speed could be 50km/h.

It's ben 5years and I have not friven annything other than scooters since that.

As long as the front tyre don't slip and the tail don't get off the ground you can stop in a exstremly short distance. I gues this could variable alot on tyre and asphalt qualety and deposits on it+ temperature witch could vary from country to country.
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Postby Stefan » 11 Nov 2006, 03:07

I'm quite happy that this tread isn't dead yet and more and more show interest in it.
would you be happy with an instructor from england (I've just flown him in :notworthy: ) to be your coach? I'm certainly more than happy that he is willing to play this part and we'll let you interested folks know shortly how we proceed.

please check this place from time to time because now we're going to get serious about it - maybe in a small scale but better that than nothing, am i right?

have a nice day
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Postby Joesox » 11 Nov 2006, 12:18

x08 wrote:.. and as for predicting what's gunna happen... well... we try our best, but they ride/drive so unpredictably here that it can be difficult sometimes.. though this primarily refers to old people, wannabe gangsters, taxi and bus drivers and mothers with more diamond rings than her children have underwear combined..

the only real SAFE way to drive here is either a) don't drive, or b) floor it until you're in front of everyone else and stay in front at a nice distance, dead in the centre of your directional side of the road (ie. on the line for 2 lanes your way) to keep the maximum clearance on each sid..
Developing the three stages of situational awareness has improved my riding. The second stage of prediction really means going through all the possibilities in your mind. Obviously this needs to become an automatic, "felt" thing because as a fully conscious process it's just too slow. Paradoxically, this prediction may actually be a little easier here than in western countries because all kinds of strange situations do occur here on a regular basis. In a country where people generally drive better, you can get lulled into a false sense of security so that the 1% of the time that something does happen, you're not ready for it.

x08 wrote:the only real SAFE way to drive here is either a) don't drive, or b) floor it until you're in front of everyone else and stay in front at a nice distance, dead in the centre of your directional side of the road (ie. on the line for 2 lanes your way) to keep the maximum clearance on each sid..
As I said, the final stage of planning what you're actually going to do should involve some flexibility.

However, if the only defensive riding skills you feel able to implement are what you described, I suppose it's better than nothing.
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Postby x08 » 11 Nov 2006, 14:45

while i will agree with what you say joe, it brings to memory an old near-miss I had..

was coming up behind this old guy on a scooter.. he was clearly turning left at the intersection ahead.. he was moving over left and yes - he turned left... but then, for some reason, halfway through his turn he decided he was supposed to turn right, not left... and so promptly turned back again...

luckily I have enough perception to notice this as he did it, because i managed to drop down to an angle that would make rossi jealous and just manage to scrape past...

yes, some things about perception can be taught, but it's more something that needs to be learnt over time..

Stefan> I'm interested... but I don't have time to get to taipei atm.. any chance for a taichung session?
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Postby llary » 11 Nov 2006, 15:23

x08 wrote:Stefan> I'm interested... but I don't have time to get to Taipei atm.. any chance for a taichung session?


The people most interested in this all seem to be down here in Taichung.. so screw Taipei :)
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