KTM 125 Concept and Duke 125/200/350

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Re: KTM 125 Concept

Postby sulavaca » 05 Mar 2010, 01:34

Ducked wrote:
sulavaca wrote:
If an M3 was a tacky Rolex knockoff then a Cappucino was a Casio. It just kept on out performing the most expensive, was twice the fun and cost a fraction of the price.

Right. Now lets see a better metaphor than that.

:D


See above


My point precisely. If you need a tool for a job, then go to a tool shop, not a beauty boutique. A Moto is like having mascara whereas thawt KTM is more like having silicon ab and buttock implants. Neither of them are serious bikes. I'd rather go for cute than butch with no gonads.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept

Postby Ducked » 05 Mar 2010, 11:32

Even without the policemens uniforms and pink shirts, it'd be evident that some of us are confused, tired and emotional, and not only about gender. Its understandable. Analogies can be confusing.

Perhaps I can restore calm by picking out the logical thread, in pink if necessary, but in a rather deep, Sean Conneroid voice.

Pink Premise 1: This thread is about a (concept) motorcycle. Cars were introduced as a visual analogy. This is legitimate, but discussing the merits of the cars in their own right is, er...deviant from the topic.

Pink Premise 2: This thread is about whether the motorcycle is "the coolest" (or at least "cool"). I don't really do cool, but I'd contend that its mostly about form rather than substance, so the argument is largely an aesthetic one.

In any case we know bugger-all about the specific performance of this doesn't-really-exist motorcycle (I've seen it credited with 18, 15 and 14 hp, though perhaps at different rpm, dunno) except that, as a 125cc 4-stroke, its likely to be relatively underpowered.

In this aesthetic context, I dissed the motorcyle as an (admittedly mild) example of the prevailing bag o'chisels sportsbike design aesthetic, and offered the Phillipe Stark Aprillia as the sharpest motorcycle design contrast I could think of. Confronted with the Suzuki Cappuchino as a "car analogue" of the KTM125 motorcycle, I offered the KTM X-Bow as a much better visual analogue, which it undeniably is.

Or more simply:-

KTM125 (ugly wee bag o'chisels motorcycle) (=) KTM X-Bow (ugly wee bag o'chisels car)

This does not in any way imply that I think the KTM X-Bow is better than the Suzuki Cappuchino, (which looks a nice wee thing). It just implies that I think the Suzuki Cappuchino is a lousy visual analogue to the KTM125.

Hope thats cleared up at least some of the logical confusion.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept

Postby jaame » 09 May 2012, 18:34

It's out boys!

They've watered it down a bit and given it a few pies to munch on, but it's out in the form of the made in India Duke 125, soon to be 200, soon to be 350.

Indian price of the 350 is rumoured to be 200k rupees, $108k TWD.

Hopefully they'll do an R version and it will find its way over here for under $300k

Fingers crossed.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept

Postby jaame » 15 May 2012, 22:34

If this doesn't make you want one, nothing will.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept

Postby Battery9 » 15 May 2012, 22:54

I hope it's not over NT200 000. It looks pretty cheap...and a bit like a Ducati with those bars, but yeah, it's definitely different from the other bikes.
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Bad news!

Postby jaame » 17 May 2012, 13:18

I did a bit of research on the internet about the Duke 200. The Yahama R15 and Honda CBR250 are also made in India and available here now. The relative prices makes for pretty unhappy reading!

INR (INDIAN PRICE CONVERTED TO TWD) ACTUAL PRICE - TWD IN TAIWAN
CBR250 168,000 (91,000) 238,000
R15 107,000 (58,000) 160,000
DUKE 200 117,000 (63,000) ?

I estimate the Duke 200 will be available here in about two years at a cost of $170,000 or so (by converting the Indian price into TWD and then multiplying by 2.7). No Indian RRP has been released as yet for the Duke 350... indeed, it doesn't even exist yet. There is rumour of a 200,000INR price tag which would be $108,000 TWD, multiplied by 2.7 is about $300,000. The engine is based on the Freeride 350 which makes 25bhp but it is an off-road bike. There is talk of the Duke 350 making 30hp, which seems a little low to me considering the 200 makes 25.

Maybe there will be a R version with closer to 35 shortly after.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept and Duke 125/200/350

Postby jaame » 17 May 2012, 18:53

Here is a tasty road test and review by Autocar India about the Duke 200.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept and Duke 125/200/350

Postby jaame » 17 May 2012, 22:29

After further clicking, I've deduced that the Duke 350 will be based on the same 88x57.5 350cc engine as used in the 350 SX-F and the Freeride 350 (albeit a made in India version). The 350 SX-F is kicking out 45bhp at the wheel on a dyno run I watched on Youtube. The Freeride is said to have 25bhp. So the Duke 350 could be anywhere in between. This is KTM we're talking about so I'd guess at the higher end, probably between 35 and 40 at the wheel. Unless they want to keep the tune mellow and release the screamer in the "Moto3 350" race rep pencilled for release in 2014, which will also use the same engine.

Also the Indian prices of the 200 (117k) and 350 (200k) are hugely different, which leads me to believe the 350 will be much higher spec, not just the exact same bike with a bigger engine. I'm expecting radial Brembo brakes with Braking discs, fully adjustable suspension, Marchesini wheels, Renthal handlebars and an Akrapovic full system.
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Re: KTM 125 Concept and Duke 125/200/350

Postby jaame » 23 May 2012, 22:45

If one were to have a mini Duke, would one attack corners with the "foot out" or "knee down" style? I think "foot out" may only be possible with bikes that allow you to get really close to the bars. I wouldn't feel safe putting my knee near the road, knowing it would be the first point of contact if I had a slide...
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Re: KTM 125 Concept and Duke 125/200/350

Postby jaame » 16 Jun 2012, 12:34

Ducati Taoyuan have a 125 Duke in stock now. "One of only two in Taiwan". $268,000 OTR.
Duke 200 is scheduled to arrive in October, $298,000 OTR.
Duke 350 is not scheduled yet but they estimate the price will be $350-400k "definitely under $400k".

The bike is very small, light and short. The seat to bars distance is similar to the CPI in the bottom of the seat well, hips nice and close to the bars. Clutch action is very light. Build quality looks pretty good, the finish is far, far better than my CPI. The spec is quite modest, but the quality looks to be there.

With freeways 6 and 8 set to open later this year for red plates, word has it that in a few years all freeways will be open to yellow and red plates. I predict the death of the yellow plate. I reckon under 250 will be white, and over 250 will be red.

Bye bye CPI!
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