Stray dogs problem.

Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Petrichor » 14 May 2012, 05:22

asiababy wrote:Petrichor,

We have reserved one morning at our Parents' Place Summer Camp (third week of July) for someone to come and talk/demonstrate safety around dogs to our kids. Cost for the morning is 450/child (including snack, some of this will be donated to the charity) and we hope kids can bring a small donation to give to the charity that does the talk, so they can directly experience the feeling of giving. I'll let you and other people with kids know when we have final details.


Thanks Asiababy but we're booked up for the first three weeks of July :( . Great idea, though. Incidentally, I think where I've read about the Parent's Place Summer Camp elsewhere it says June (I wondered why it was happening before school broke up.)
Use what talents you possess: The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best.

http://talesfromthebeautifulisle.blogspot.com/
Forumosan avatar
Petrichor
Bird Walker (liù niǎo de rén)
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 04:30
Location: Muzha
86 Recommends(s)
90 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Flakman » 14 May 2012, 11:18

I am trying to follow the logic of many posts on this topic. Since is not dogs fault they are on the street we need to leave them alone to let them live their lives. Yes, I feel sorry for them and anger at the people who dumped them there. (

Who can say the “mostly euthanizing them, have been an abject failure?” or that the “problem only gets worse by euthanizing?” Why? because problem still exists? Could it possibly be helping the situation but just has not solved the problem? Of course, does not solve the problem as root cause still exists. (And yes, I have heard the argument that once one dog is removed from the street another will replace it so just leave the dog on the street to fend for itself.) (And neutering is not going to remove all the aggression.)

I am sorry to say that removing wild dogs from the streets will cut down on disease, feces on the sidewalks, attacks on humans and other dogs, crippled dogs trying to survive, etc. Of course, definitely need clear laws and enforcement to solve root problem. The key focus needs to be on prevention of this problem.

As for my experience, no need to go into details on large amount of feces on all sidewalks around my house and park where I jog. Meanwhile, I used to happily watch a variety of birds near my morning bus stop…making my wait more pleasant. Now, I get to watch the cats stalking the few birds that happen to not know about their constant presence.

I guess need to wait until there is a rabies outbreak…I think some changes will happen then…
:2cents:
"A society is in trouble when a person must be a hero to do the right thing." Plato
"I murmured because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet." Persian proverb
Flakman
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 276
Joined: 03 Dec 2007, 20:12
8 Recommends(s)
17 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Taiwan Luthiers » 14 May 2012, 12:20

Well, it seems in Taiwan people complain about problems in the society (and all countries have problems), but no one will lift a finger to do anything about it. For example every worker complains about the low pay to work ratio but no one will do anything about it, like collective bargaining or strikes or other ways to get themselves heard. In China even though things suck someone told me that people there will strive to change something if something is wrong.

I think it goes the same with stray dogs, everyone here hates stray dogs but no one will lift a finger to change things, like ban unlicensed breeders or other laws designed to limit stray dogs. Sometimes when the problem gets so bad they just have the government come and catch and kill all the stray dogs but it doesn't really solve the root of the problem.

The general consensus is that no one will take any concrete step until the son or daughter of a president or other high politician (like the premier) is seriously hurt or killed by stray dogs.
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoonguitars.com
Taiwan Luthiers
Presidential Advisor (zǒng tǒng gù wèn)
Presidential Advisor (zǒng tǒng gù wèn)
 
Posts: 3061
Joined: 05 Mar 2009, 15:15
1 Recommends(s)
90 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby bigduke6 » 14 May 2012, 17:33

I have changed my position. I am all for euthanasia !!!

In fact, I believe it should be done to homeless people as well.

They often smell worse than dog poo.
They often ask for money and bother us hardworking folk.
Sometimes they defecate in the street.
They do not contribute to society in anyway.
They are often aggressive if you do not give them money.
They are often sick and have no food, so are therefore suffering like the dogs. We have a moral obligation to put them out of their misery.

We can even open a homeless person pound, leave them for 11 days, and if no one claims them...inject, inject, inject.
Jesus Quintana: Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of your crazy shit with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the fucking trigger 'til it goes "click."
The Dude: Jesus.
Jesus Quintana: You said it, man. Nobody
fucks with the Jesus.

Mr.Lahey: The shitabyss!
Randy: Mr. Lahey, not another night of the shitabyss, please?!
Mr.Lahey: Ah, fuck it.

If you talk to god, you're religious. If god talks to you, you're psychotic.
Gregory House

I got me a dog and named her Mybitchniggaeater.
2Pac

This post was recommended by E04teacherlin (16 May 2012, 13:32)
Rating: 4%
Forumosan avatar
bigduke6
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
 
Posts: 1885
Joined: 19 May 2011, 11:58
Location: Kaohsiung
72 Recommends(s)
132 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Mucha Man » 14 May 2012, 18:02

Flakman wrote:...:2cents:


No offense but it doesn't seem to me that you have captured anyone's POV with what you wrote.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
Forumosan avatar
Mucha Man
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 18646
Joined: 01 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: Mucha, of course
802 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Flakman » 15 May 2012, 11:20

Muzha Man....sorry to not capture your POV.
"A society is in trouble when a person must be a hero to do the right thing." Plato
"I murmured because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet." Persian proverb
Flakman
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 276
Joined: 03 Dec 2007, 20:12
8 Recommends(s)
17 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Novaspes » 14 Feb 2013, 00:19

Flakman wrote:I am trying to follow the logic of many posts on this topic. Since is not dogs fault they are on the street we need to leave them alone to let them live their lives. Yes, I feel sorry for them and anger at the people who dumped them there. (

Who can say the “mostly euthanizing them, have been an abject failure?” or that the “problem only gets worse by euthanizing?” Why? because problem still exists? Could it possibly be helping the situation but just has not solved the problem? Of course, does not solve the problem as root cause still exists. (And yes, I have heard the argument that once one dog is removed from the street another will replace it so just leave the dog on the street to fend for itself.) (And neutering is not going to remove all the aggression.)

I am sorry to say that removing wild dogs from the streets will cut down on disease, feces on the sidewalks, attacks on humans and other dogs, crippled dogs trying to survive, etc. Of course, definitely need clear laws and enforcement to solve root problem. The key focus needs to be on prevention of this problem.

As for my experience, no need to go into details on large amount of feces on all sidewalks around my house and park where I jog. Meanwhile, I used to happily watch a variety of birds near my morning bus stop…making my wait more pleasant. Now, I get to watch the cats stalking the few birds that happen to not know about their constant presence.

I guess need to wait until there is a rabies outbreak…I think some changes will happen then…
:2cents:


First and foremost, I am in no way proposing that euthansia and "catch and kill" are ethically acceptable solutions to the stray problem (I.e. if the choice was mine I would NOT go for them).

With that out of the way, I am left wondering how is it that "catch and kill" does not get rid of strays. It's real simple to explain my puzzlement. There are two rates involved: the rate at which new strays are "created" (through breeding or abandonment of pets) and the one at which they're disposed of (through natural deaths and euthanasia). If we call the first Rc and the second Rk, as soon as you can keep Rk> Rc consistently, the stray dog problem is solved.

The way I see it CNR and anti-abandonment laws should lower Rc, while CatchNKill should increase Rk. By this logic, CNK only fails because agencies cannot (do not want) to kill enough dogs for it to work. Am I missing something?


[Please oh please keep in mind what I said in my first lines. Also, excuse the nerdy, engineer-minded tone of this post]

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Forumosan avatar
Novaspes
Immune to Breathalizers (jiǔ cèce bù chūlái)
Immune to Breathalizers (jiǔ cèce bù chūlái)
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: 07 Feb 2009, 01:33
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
648 Recommends(s)
173 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Mucha Man » 14 Feb 2013, 01:28

You people have simply no idea how ideal Taiwan is for strays to escape capture should they want to. No idea. Nor any idea just how many strays are out there. Everywhere. Down every fuckign back alley and up every fucking mountain road, off to the side, at temples, in the dense brush, in the tall grass along the rivers, etc.

The Taiwanese couldn't even kill all their genuine wildlife because this place is too Zhongli, hilly, and pocketed.

So you will never kill all the strays. And what happens when a new territory opens up? The females go into heat and produce pups again. Bingo. A year later you are back at the same level.

Plus there is the issue of people dumping. Until that ends there is little hope of doing anything but stemming the tide.

Catch and kills can work in places that are much more open. Not in places where dense jungle survives next door to insanely crowded urban conditions.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/

This post was recommended by finley (14 Feb 2013, 11:29)
Rating: 4%
Forumosan avatar
Mucha Man
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 18646
Joined: 01 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: Mucha, of course
802 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Taiwan Luthiers » 14 Feb 2013, 01:55

They could legalize hunting strays for food... then a whole industry of stray dog meat would pop up and hopefully they'd be hunted to extinction.
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoonguitars.com
Taiwan Luthiers
Presidential Advisor (zǒng tǒng gù wèn)
Presidential Advisor (zǒng tǒng gù wèn)
 
Posts: 3061
Joined: 05 Mar 2009, 15:15
1 Recommends(s)
90 Recognized(s)



Re: Stray dogs problem.

Postby Novaspes » 14 Feb 2013, 02:13

Muzha Man wrote:Catch and kills can work in places that are much more open. Not in places where dense jungle survives next door to insanely crowded urban conditions.


Thanks for this and the rest of the answer. So basically yes, it's a problem of applicability due to the nature of the territory, rather than a fundamental flaw of the method.

Would you then say that CNY is destined to fail too, since it is also based on catching a substantial percentage (I read 67% in StrayDog's posts) of the strays, unless one can induce a substantial change in people behavior (I.e. stop abandoning their pets)?

[Edited for clarity]
Forumosan avatar
Novaspes
Immune to Breathalizers (jiǔ cèce bù chūlái)
Immune to Breathalizers (jiǔ cèce bù chūlái)
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: 07 Feb 2009, 01:33
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
648 Recommends(s)
173 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Proceed to Pets & Other Animals



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 0 visitors

The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough -- RABINDRANATH TAGORE