Stray dogs problem.

[Petrichor]

Petrichor,

We have reserved one morning at our Parents' Place Summer Camp (third week of July) for someone to come and talk/demonstrate safety around dogs to our kids. Cost for the morning is 450/child (including snack, some of this will be donated to the charity) and we hope kids can bring a small donation to give to the charity that does the talk, so they can directly experience the feeling of giving. I'll let you and other people with kids know when we have final details.

Thanks Asiababy but we're booked up for the first three weeks of July . Great idea, though. Incidentally, I think where I've read about the Parent's Place Summer Camp elsewhere it says June (I wondered why it was happening before school broke up.)

[Flakman]

I am trying to follow the logic of many posts on this topic. Since is not dogs fault they are on the street we need to leave them alone to let them live their lives. Yes, I feel sorry for them and anger at the people who dumped them there. (

Who can say the “mostly euthanizing them, have been an abject failure?” or that the “problem only gets worse by euthanizing?” Why? because problem still exists? Could it possibly be helping the situation but just has not solved the problem? Of course, does not solve the problem as root cause still exists. (And yes, I have heard the argument that once one dog is removed from the street another will replace it so just leave the dog on the street to fend for itself.) (And neutering is not going to remove all the aggression.)

I am sorry to say that removing wild dogs from the streets will cut down on disease, feces on the sidewalks, attacks on humans and other dogs, crippled dogs trying to survive, etc. Of course, definitely need clear laws and enforcement to solve root problem. The key focus needs to be on prevention of this problem.

As for my experience, no need to go into details on large amount of feces on all sidewalks around my house and park where I jog. Meanwhile, I used to happily watch a variety of birds near my morning bus stop…making my wait more pleasant. Now, I get to watch the cats stalking the few birds that happen to not know about their constant presence.

I guess need to wait until there is a rabies outbreak…I think some changes will happen then…

[Taiwan Luthiers]

Well, it seems in Taiwan people complain about problems in the society (and all countries have problems), but no one will lift a finger to do anything about it. For example every worker complains about the low pay to work ratio but no one will do anything about it, like collective bargaining or strikes or other ways to get themselves heard. In China even though things suck someone told me that people there will strive to change something if something is wrong.

I think it goes the same with stray dogs, everyone here hates stray dogs but no one will lift a finger to change things, like ban unlicensed breeders or other laws designed to limit stray dogs. Sometimes when the problem gets so bad they just have the government come and catch and kill all the stray dogs but it doesn't really solve the root of the problem.

The general consensus is that no one will take any concrete step until the son or daughter of a president or other high politician (like the premier) is seriously hurt or killed by stray dogs.

[bigduke6]

I have changed my position. I am all for euthanasia !!!

In fact, I believe it should be done to homeless people as well.

They often smell worse than dog poo.
They often ask for money and bother us hardworking folk.
Sometimes they defecate in the street.
They do not contribute to society in anyway.
They are often aggressive if you do not give them money.
They are often sick and have no food, so are therefore suffering like the dogs. We have a moral obligation to put them out of their misery.

We can even open a homeless person pound, leave them for 11 days, and if no one claims them...inject, inject, inject.

[Mucha Man]

...

No offense but it doesn't seem to me that you have captured anyone's POV with what you wrote.

[Flakman]

Muzha Man....sorry to not capture your POV.

[Novaspes]

I am trying to follow the logic of many posts on this topic. Since is not dogs fault they are on the street we need to leave them alone to let them live their lives. Yes, I feel sorry for them and anger at the people who dumped them there. (

Who can say the “mostly euthanizing them, have been an abject failure?” or that the “problem only gets worse by euthanizing?” Why? because problem still exists? Could it possibly be helping the situation but just has not solved the problem? Of course, does not solve the problem as root cause still exists. (And yes, I have heard the argument that once one dog is removed from the street another will replace it so just leave the dog on the street to fend for itself.) (And neutering is not going to remove all the aggression.)

I am sorry to say that removing wild dogs from the streets will cut down on disease, feces on the sidewalks, attacks on humans and other dogs, crippled dogs trying to survive, etc. Of course, definitely need clear laws and enforcement to solve root problem. The key focus needs to be on prevention of this problem.

As for my experience, no need to go into details on large amount of feces on all sidewalks around my house and park where I jog. Meanwhile, I used to happily watch a variety of birds near my morning bus stop…making my wait more pleasant. Now, I get to watch the cats stalking the few birds that happen to not know about their constant presence.

I guess need to wait until there is a rabies outbreak…I think some changes will happen then…

First and foremost, I am in no way proposing that euthansia and "catch and kill" are ethically acceptable solutions to the stray problem (I.e. if the choice was mine I would NOT go for them).

With that out of the way, I am left wondering how is it that "catch and kill" does not get rid of strays. It's real simple to explain my puzzlement. There are two rates involved: the rate at which new strays are "created" (through breeding or abandonment of pets) and the one at which they're disposed of (through natural deaths and euthanasia). If we call the first Rc and the second Rk, as soon as you can keep Rk> Rc consistently, the stray dog problem is solved.

The way I see it CNR and anti-abandonment laws should lower Rc, while CatchNKill should increase Rk. By this logic, CNK only fails because agencies cannot (do not want) to kill enough dogs for it to work. Am I missing something?


[Please oh please keep in mind what I said in my first lines. Also, excuse the nerdy, engineer-minded tone of this post]

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[Mucha Man]

You people have simply no idea how ideal Taiwan is for strays to escape capture should they want to. No idea. Nor any idea just how many strays are out there. Everywhere. Down every fuckign back alley and up every fucking mountain road, off to the side, at temples, in the dense brush, in the tall grass along the rivers, etc.

The Taiwanese couldn't even kill all their genuine wildlife because this place is too Zhongli, hilly, and pocketed.

So you will never kill all the strays. And what happens when a new territory opens up? The females go into heat and produce pups again. Bingo. A year later you are back at the same level.

Plus there is the issue of people dumping. Until that ends there is little hope of doing anything but stemming the tide.

Catch and kills can work in places that are much more open. Not in places where dense jungle survives next door to insanely crowded urban conditions.

[Taiwan Luthiers]

They could legalize hunting strays for food... then a whole industry of stray dog meat would pop up and hopefully they'd be hunted to extinction.

[Novaspes]

Catch and kills can work in places that are much more open. Not in places where dense jungle survives next door to insanely crowded urban conditions.

Thanks for this and the rest of the answer. So basically yes, it's a problem of applicability due to the nature of the territory, rather than a fundamental flaw of the method.

Would you then say that CNY is destined to fail too, since it is also based on catching a substantial percentage (I read 67% in StrayDog's posts) of the strays, unless one can induce a substantial change in people behavior (I.e. stop abandoning their pets)?

[Edited for clarity]