Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby dan2006 » 08 Mar 2012, 13:43

Satellite TV wrote:
dan2006 wrote:The ROC national of which you mention above seems to have a lot of time on his hands. Anyone that has time to troll a neighbourhood to get 10,000 signatures of people who have the same racist thoughts as he does is has a lot of time to kill. :D


Why is it racist? I think you do not understand the word racist. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

Being a racist means preventing people doing something based on their race, and supporting renunciation does not do that. Nobody is prevented from becoming an ROC national because of their race, no ROC Citizen is prevented from voting because of their race. ( We'd need to look at USA and Australia for those types of past practices )


The idea of going to round up 10,000 people to sign a petition to keep renunciation appeals to the lowest denominator in Taiwan, which is the type of person who doesnt want anyone non chinese being there in the first place.

The average person on the street couldn't give a crap if a foreign person becomes a citizen or not, or is required to renounce or not as it doesn't affect them.
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby Satellite TV » 08 Mar 2012, 13:51

bismarck wrote:I totally agree with that. I know a fifty something year old Thai women (we studied Chinese together at NCKU) and a retired Korean guy both married to Taiwanese citizens for over 40 years, with kids born and raised here, who's boys have served in the military who aren't Taiwanese citizens (both still on JFRVs) because of the renunciation issue. .


Bismarck Thailand and Korea do not allow dual nationality. The renunciation issue is simply being used an an excuse
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby Satellite TV » 08 Mar 2012, 13:53

dan2006 wrote:The idea of going to round up 10,000 people to sign a petition to keep renunciation appeals to the lowest denominator in Taiwan, which is the type of person who doesnt want anyone non chinese being there in the first place.

The average person on the street couldn't give a crap if a foreign person becomes a citizen or not, or is required to renounce or not as it doesn't affect them.


Its not about preventing non ethnically Chinese from becoming ROC nationals, your claim is simply wrong.
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby bismarck » 08 Mar 2012, 13:54

dan2006 wrote:The average person on the street couldn't give a crap if a foreign person becomes a citizen or not, or is required to renounce or not as it doesn't affect them.

Most aren't even aware that it's possible for a foreigner to apply, let alone that you have to renounce. Pretty much like most aren't aware that foreigner workers have to go for a medical check-up every year for their ARC, and cling to the fallacy that foreigners are playboys riddled with STDs. But if something is a rarity, then all folks have to go on in most instances is conjecture, Apple Daily style gossip and misconceptions/generalizations.
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby Satellite TV » 08 Mar 2012, 14:02

bismarck wrote: then we're not even talking about people on this forum, like Tainan Cowboy, who would never consider renunciation for whatever reasons. I find it profoundly sad that such persons need to renounce and in the event of the death of their respective spouses will lose their "reason" for staying here, even if at that stage they've been here for decades, raised Taiwanese children and contributed to society..


Yup thats why I support dropping the renunciation requirement, although it will only benefit very few foreign nationals as most countries that Taiwan has immigrants coming from do not allow dual nationality anyway.
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby Satellite TV » 08 Mar 2012, 14:12

bismarck wrote:
dan2006 wrote:The average person on the street couldn't give a crap if a foreign person becomes a citizen or not, or is required to renounce or not as it doesn't affect them.

Most aren't even aware that it's possible for a foreigner to apply, let alone that you have to renounce. Pretty much like most aren't aware that foreigner workers have to go for a medical check-up every year for their ARC, and cling to the fallacy that foreigners are playboys riddled with STDs. But if something is a rarity, then all folks have to go on in most instances is conjecture, Apple Daily style gossip and misconceptions/generalizations.



Bismarck most Australians don't know that many people who apply for Australian citizenship lose their home countries citizenship either. Why would they, they never needed to apply for it. I find most people ask me if I had to renounce to get ROC nationality though. Maybe in Tainan they are less aware?
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby John » 08 Mar 2012, 15:03

Omniloquacious wrote:Let me add something about the human rights aspect of this issue:

Indeed, the US and EU effectively recognize dual citizenship as a basic human right. It is very hard to argue against such a proposition, which is being increasingly accepted by politicians, scholars and governments around the world.



The Netherlands also requires renunciation, but they do have a whole list of exceptions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nati ... itizenship)
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby spaint » 08 Mar 2012, 15:14

Satellite TV wrote:
bismarck wrote:
dan2006 wrote:The average person on the street couldn't give a crap if a foreign person becomes a citizen or not, or is required to renounce or not as it doesn't affect them.

Most aren't even aware that it's possible for a foreigner to apply, let alone that you have to renounce. Pretty much like most aren't aware that foreigner workers have to go for a medical check-up every year for their ARC, and cling to the fallacy that foreigners are playboys riddled with STDs. But if something is a rarity, then all folks have to go on in most instances is conjecture, Apple Daily style gossip and misconceptions/generalizations.



Bismarck most Australians don't know that many people who apply for Australian citizenship lose their home countries citizenship either. Why would they, they never needed to apply for it. I find most people ask me if I had to renounce to get ROC nationality though. Maybe in Tainan they are less aware?


Many Taiwanese I know are shocked that I don't have citizenship yet. They seem to think you can pretty much get it automatically. They are even more shocked when I tell them there's a need to renounce citizenship of origin.

SatTV - please do me (and others perhaps) a favor and smack that former-foreigner friend of yours upside the head. I'd be delighted if Omni's push could come to fruition as I'd then be saved the headache (and financial burden) of first renouncing and then reclaiming British citizenship to overcome this clearly fucking stupid (and pointless) obstacle to me gaining local nationality. Your friend's plan seems to be driven purely by spite.
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby Omniloquacious » 08 Mar 2012, 15:20

bismarck wrote: However, people who have successful businesses here (and who obviously pay a huge amount of tax compared to the average ESL teacher, AND employ several locals in the process), and/or who are married with children shouldn't have the same obstacle. I'm heavily in favour of these two groups gaining citizenship (and in the case of people married with children, this should be extended to people with kids even in the case of divorce or death of the Taiwanese spouse) without having to renounce, but I would hate to see every "Johnny Laowai" working at Uncle Chen's Buxiban who can qualify for an APRC attaining the same status.


Yes, which is why one of my alternative proposals was to give the relevant authority a discretion to waive the renunciation requirement in cases where it deemed it appropriate to do so. That would allow them to choose between those who deserved to receive this benefit and those who didn't, and between cases in which it would evidently be in Taiwan's interests to allow it and cases where it would not be so.
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Re: Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

Postby Omniloquacious » 08 Mar 2012, 15:27

bismarck wrote:
dan2006 wrote:The average person on the street couldn't give a crap if a foreign person becomes a citizen or not, or is required to renounce or not as it doesn't affect them.

Most aren't even aware that it's possible for a foreigner to apply, let alone that you have to renounce.


And a lot of civil servants I talk to in the course of my work, even those in very high positions, assume that I must already be a citizen after having lived here for so long, express surprise when I tell them about the renunciation requirement, and agree that the law ought to be changed when I air my views on it.
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