headhonchoII wrote:Taiwan has learned from Japan and has more to learn from Japan. Japan had conservation laws in their hillsides and forests hundreds of years ago. Yes it didn't stop them chopping down lots of trees here but what ridiculous arguments I am hearing.
- rotten dilapidated looking buildings everywhere are fine (I know many taiwanese who dont like this either)
*** If they don't like it let the people organize to change it, I live here too there are a lot of things Taiwanese don't like but put up with. It's their way. My argument is you can't force laws on people, if the outside get bad enough people will will do something about it, or do you suggest putting some law on the books to give people fines?
headhonchoII wrote:- smelly polluted rivers are fine
- lack of sewerage systems is fine
-factories located beside agricultural areas are fine
*** Where did I say these things were fine, Taiwan is a developing country, These are the problems developing countries seem to go through. Look at the states during its development stages. Clear cutting across the west to lay railroads, cutting down woodlands for farms, cotton mills right on rivers. These are problems that get better as the society advances there's no fast forward button for that.
headhonchoII wrote:- badly organized streets, pavements and dangerous driving are fine
*** The streets are bad but Taiwan, like Japan has that same problem. Many areas of Japan have bad streets. Also like in Japan, Taiwanese streets seem to just be an expansion of the older roads before. That's an aesthetic issue. The highways are nice but those are elevated or built in less populated areas. Have you seen the roads in the cities in Japan, almost as bad as Taiwan. It's not the roads its the earth beneath it. I see it all the time, freshly paved roads only to grow a hill or sink hole somewhere. The driving, well that again you can't change people's habits overnight. Taiwan isn't big enough for cars, barely big enough for scooters.
headhonchoII wrote:- air pollution is fine, just wear a mask.
*** you missed the point, I was saying people smoking causing more dust in the air, then complain about air pollution. No one likes to inhale dirty air, but again people will smoke then complain about air quality. That's crazy.
headhonchoII wrote:Listen to what you are saying...pretty dumb. Also not everywhere in Japan is the same, for instance Osaka is remarkably similar to Taiwanese cities.
I lived in Osaka and liked it there. Kansai area is my favorite area in Japan, but even there is starting to turn into a roach motel skyscraper hell.
headhonchoII wrote:You need to live in Taiwan longer and learn something. Those skyscrapers (I assume you mean tall buildings) are the safest buildings as they are scrutinized the most and use reinforced steel and pilings. By living in tall buildings people don't need to occupy every bit of the countryside of what is one of the worlds MOST densely populated countries.
Who cares if Taiwan is self sustainable in food, this argument keeps coming up, what the hell do the need to do that for? It makes no sense from an economic or risk management aspect. Every small country which has tried this has usually resulted in famine or revolution, read some history books. Ireland was self sustainable until it had a potato blight and one million people died and one million emigrated, great result. In Cambodia and North Korea it was an abject failure. Cuba never achieved it completely and it was just forced on them, I'm sure if you asked the people they would rather be doing something else with their time in many cases than beig subsistence peasant farmers.
Self sustainability can change over night due to war, weather or disease. Taiwan is better off focusing on other things it is good at and that can boost peoples living standards, not degrade them like some sort of Maoist throwback. There are 22 million people here in urban conurbations surrounded by large mountain ranges prone to typhoons, not an agragarian paradise. My wife is from a Hakka family in Miaoli, those people know subsistence farming and they chose to move down from the hills to the plains area when it was redistributed because farming is not that bloody easy in marginal areas! If the individual wants to be self sustainable go for it, that's YOUR choice.
***That statement is utterly madness! I'm from California earthquakes don't kill people, buildings fall down and kill people. How many deaths have you heard from earthquakes when people live away from those high rise buildings. No matter how safe you think they are all it takes is the right quake and it all comes crashing down. You say I'm dumb and need to travel more, you tell me about reading history books, have you been to those places you tell me you read about, except for Ireland, Cuba and N. Korea, S. Korea will have to suffice. I lived in Miami I have talked to many Cuban expats and Cuba is very complicated. One reason they fail is because they have economic sanctions, how can you farm when u can't buy the things required to run a farm? A lot of the trouble you talk about where those people ended up in famine was caused exactly by what's being advocated here, top down rules forced on people. That has never worked in the past, doesn't work today, and I doubt it would work in the future. So maybe you should take some time before you read books and think you know something, actually do and then know something. I've you've been and want to debate specifics I'd welcome that but I highly suspect you've never been to those countries you mentioned.
***Also answer me this, have you heard of a country where people fled because it was too populated? Usually you hear people leave an area, usually a city because they are overcrowded. Countries don't get overpopulated, its usually just the cramped up cities where people are sucked from the land into the city ground type of lifestyle. I'd like for you to cite me anything that show where it was a country that was over populated and not the cramped cities.
*** No one here is advocating "subsistence peasant farmers" or those huge industrial farms that grow one crop. I'm talking about farming the foods that you can use. The reason being is that if you can feed yourself, your family and your neighbors who wouldn't like that freedom? Are you truly telling me you would want piles of money, instead of food? Farming is hard sure so is life, you give up your land that can support you to move to a cramped city, how does that fix the problem? If a typhoon come and your on a farm, you lose your crops, you can replant and continue. If an earthquake hits and you lose your house and everything you had, then what? Did you see what happened in Japan after their disaster last year, after 3 days stores were empty. I wonder how the farmers were doing. Your wife's family moved away from that land, if that was their choice that's their choice. Someone else probably picked up the slack if they sold off the land. Not everyone can be farmers because it isn't easy work but do you want your food grown in your own country, or do you want to have to import most of your food products. Which one face more risk because of typhoon or earthquakes?