Children of Enlightenment

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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby Taiwan Luthiers » 22 May 2012, 16:04

You do realize that back in the day (as recent as only 70 years ago) parents telling their children who to marry is the norm right? Back then many marriages are arranged and the West wasn't free of its taboos too, for example interracial marriage was almost as bad as same sex marriage to many conservatives in the 60's.

I am just saying for a long time marriage was less about romance but more about security and developing connections between families.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby headhonchoII » 22 May 2012, 17:07

Yeah but now its 2012, WTF is wrong with these people not living their lives the way they want.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby Taiwan Luthiers » 22 May 2012, 17:29

headhonchoII wrote:Yeah but now its 2012, WTF is wrong with these people not living their lives the way they want.


In many culture except our own, dating is considered a taboo. In societies with arranged marriage at least both men and women doesn't have to cheapen themselves in order to attract someone, or worry that they won't ever get married, etc.

Who are we to say that their way is wrong, should the entire world follow the American way?

I am not saying I like the Chinese way because they put incredible pressure on the kid to find their own mate and they still have to pass through the parent's judgment. Plus I think there are so much Western influence (that many Chinese do not realize) that its becoming a horrible genetic experiment gone wrong. You don't get the pleasure of being a Chinese or American yet you are saddled with the responsibility of both cultures.

The Chinese culture on their own is a beautiful thing but I think a lot of it has to do with ignorant Western missionaries who keeps telling them that their culture is savage and pagan. There are a lot of bad things within the Chinese culture but its not like American culture is free of fault too.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby photi » 22 May 2012, 18:14

headhonchoII wrote:Yeah but now its 2012, WTF is wrong with these people not living their lives the way they want.


You mean the way you want them to? :p

Societies don't necessarily progress linearly.

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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby Confuzius » 22 May 2012, 21:24

crystaleye wrote:
Rabidpie wrote:I suppose I am the only one in thinking that Asian societies that have a lot of filial piety for their parents is a good thing...?


Respect for one's parents is very different from the Asian definition of "filial piety"..

Asian parents' definition of "filial piety" is ..

"dear son/daughter, if you don't listen to what I say, this means you are not being filial to me.."

you know even the Buddha himself dare not command such blind obedience from his followers.. The Buddha himself said.. “Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.”

and since most Asian parents are hardly as wise or as moral as the Buddha, what right do Asian parents or any parents for that matter, regardless of race of nationality, what right do parents have to demand such blind obedience from their children?

especially in matters as significant as marriages and love?


Interesting points, BUT....

Chinese filial piety and Buddhism are at odds with one another (despite some Chinese Buddhist thinkers to go to great lengths to make it seem they are in alignment, including creating the fake "Sutra of Filial Piety"-which is certainly a medieval Chinese forgery).

Buddhism was attacked and almost destroyed 4 times in Chinese history (not including Mao...talking before Mao). What was one of the MAJOR criticisms? Buddhism goes against filial piety! It teaches people to leave home, become monks, shit, perhaps even celibate and look for their own inner Buddha nature. This is the exact opositte of filial piety.

Soya, using Buddha as an example doesn't work in this context even if your point is valid.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby Steviebike » 22 May 2012, 21:27

Societies don't necessarily progress linearly.


I was thinking about that earlier and is very true. No two societies are the same either, they contain the same components (or at least some of them), but are arranged in different ways.

To the point about parental rule. It is easy to judge the extreme at either end. The middle is actually working fine, in nearly most societies. Regardless of what one might think.

I'm a designer too. I don't see it the same way. I'm here to help one group communicate to the other. Design is about communication. I think those who worry about breaking boundaries are often elitist, concerned with only themselves and their ideas. Ok it works to be this way if you want to be at the fore-front, but you should always question yourself to check that you actually are.

For me, the key in family life is communication. If you can correctly communicate yourself [to others, including parents] then you will be able to move forward as an individual. To break the mold of a culture is too much to ask of people. Time will sort out what works and what doesn't. 100 years later...
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby crystaleye » 23 May 2012, 14:03

Taiwan Luthiers wrote:You do realize that back in the day (as recent as only 70 years ago) parents telling their children who to marry is the norm right? Back then many marriages are arranged and the West wasn't free of its taboos too, for example interracial marriage was almost as bad as same sex marriage to many conservatives in the 60's.

I am just saying for a long time marriage was less about romance but more about security and developing connections between families.


Arranged Marriages have always been a stupid outdated concept.

Nobody in the world knows what is the best life-path for any particular individual except that particular individual himself. Not even a person's parents know exactly what makes a person happy because people change and evolve all the time.

For parents to decide who is the best spouse for their child is akin to murdering their child's happiness and peace.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby crystaleye » 23 May 2012, 14:06

Confuzius wrote:
crystaleye wrote:
Rabidpie wrote:I suppose I am the only one in thinking that Asian societies that have a lot of filial piety for their parents is a good thing...?


Respect for one's parents is very different from the Asian definition of "filial piety"..

Asian parents' definition of "filial piety" is ..

"dear son/daughter, if you don't listen to what I say, this means you are not being filial to me.."

you know even the Buddha himself dare not command such blind obedience from his followers.. The Buddha himself said.. “Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.”

and since most Asian parents are hardly as wise or as moral as the Buddha, what right do Asian parents or any parents for that matter, regardless of race of nationality, what right do parents have to demand such blind obedience from their children?

especially in matters as significant as marriages and love?


Interesting points, BUT....

Chinese filial piety and Buddhism are at odds with one another (despite some Chinese Buddhist thinkers to go to great lengths to make it seem they are in alignment, including creating the fake "Sutra of Filial Piety"-which is certainly a medieval Chinese forgery).

Buddhism was attacked and almost destroyed 4 times in Chinese history (not including Mao...talking before Mao). What was one of the MAJOR criticisms? Buddhism goes against filial piety! It teaches people to leave home, become monks, shit, perhaps even celibate and look for their own inner Buddha nature. This is the exact opositte of filial piety.

Soya, using Buddha as an example doesn't work in this context even if your point is valid.


Buddhism is about cutting off your links with the samsaric world and most importantly, the severing of your karmic connections with your own parents but this is evidently very unacceptable to the unevolved chinese people.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby Rabidpie » 23 May 2012, 14:28

crystaleye wrote:
Taiwan Luthiers wrote:You do realize that back in the day (as recent as only 70 years ago) parents telling their children who to marry is the norm right? Back then many marriages are arranged and the West wasn't free of its taboos too, for example interracial marriage was almost as bad as same sex marriage to many conservatives in the 60's.

I am just saying for a long time marriage was less about romance but more about security and developing connections between families.


Arranged Marriages have always been a stupid outdated concept.

Nobody in the world knows what is the best life-path for any particular individual except that particular individual himself. Not even a person's parents know exactly what makes a person happy because people change and evolve all the time.

For parents to decide who is the best spouse for their child is akin to murdering their child's happiness and peace.


As someone who hasn't had an arranged marriage, I wouldn't know what that would feel like.

However, when I was in India I got to understand that concept of arranged marriages much better. Overall, it's a long process where both the parents and the child look for good candidates who they can marry. It's a very fascinating process in many ways.
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Re: Children of Enlightenment

Postby TheGingerMan » 23 May 2012, 19:13

this is why I think I would never even give the time of the day to a chinese woman from now on.. and i include taiwan and hk in this broad category of "chinese women" cos they are from the same "mommy-and-daddy's girls" breed..

Excellent news! But more from their angle than yours.

More grounds for research for the rest of us..........
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