Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

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Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby Taiwan_Student » 25 Jul 2012, 14:29

Our subdivision consists if two row houses on behind the other. It was carved out of a fish farm. The first row of houses is facing the main road. The second row of houses was facing what was left of the fish farm. Since there was no road access to our houses on the back row, we had to buy a little extra land to use, and grant each other permission to use it as an access road.

The fish farm is now long gone. Just this morning a developer was knocking on our doors telling how great the sudivision across our little street will be and would we mind signing over permission for them to use it. I asked our neighbor with my limited Chinese. "Why they asking permission?" I think she said we paid money for the road? I asked if they were going to give us any money. She said no. I asked if they will make our road wider. She said no.

My wife is the legal owner of our land, so he will have to come back tonight to get her signature. This is the only country I know of where they ask you to use your land, but don't give you anything in return. This is a really big buck subdivision. I'm surprised they did not offer us a small token.

This is a forced permissions thing by the way... In anycase.. in a year or two the road becomes town property anyway... But it sucks. I loose a parking space. I paid for that road in the first place...
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Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby headhonchoII » 25 Jul 2012, 14:58

When the government builds public roads they must compensate landowners for taking the land, so if you are part landowner you should find out where the compensation money has gone to.
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby archylgp » 25 Jul 2012, 15:22

Taiwan_Student wrote:Our subdivision consists if two row houses on behind the other. It was carved out of a fish farm. The first row of houses is facing the main road. The second row of houses was facing what was left of the fish farm. Since there was no road access to our houses on the back row, we had to buy a little extra land to use, and grant each other permission to use it as an access road.

The fish farm is now long gone. Just this morning a developer was knocking on our doors telling how great the sudivision across our little street will be and would we mind signing over permission for them to use it. I asked our neighbor with my limited Chinese. "Why they asking permission?" I think she said we paid money for the road? I asked if they were going to give us any money. She said no. I asked if they will make our road wider. She said no.

My wife is the legal owner of our land, so he will have to come back tonight to get her signature. This is the only country I know of where they ask you to use your land, but don't give you anything in return. This is a really big buck subdivision. I'm surprised they did not offer us a small token.

This is a forced permissions thing by the way... In anycase.. in a year or two the road becomes town property anyway... But it sucks. I loose a parking space. I paid for that road in the first place...


Asking is part of the game: they ask and if you don't cooperate they just go ahead and do it. That's at least my understanding of how developers were able to legally bulldoze a man's house down a few months ago while suing him at the same time for not vacating the property. This being Taiwan, I haven't heard anything since the initial ''breaking news event'' ended...I sincerely hope things aren't this messed up here, but you're lucky they're not asking for your property. (Here's a link to a protest at the site I referred to with the police dragging away protesters (Chinese): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpd2UBwzZd4)
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby Taiwan_Student » 25 Jul 2012, 15:32

We've been through that a few years ago. There was a related thread here. Some neighbors on the other side protested and threatened to refuse. They then told us (them) that the town really needed this and if they refused there would be some unsaid trouble. They actually said.. "something bad will happen".

It was really funny. In the morning our local "leader" was a tiger. In the afternoon he was meek. I think some people were offered some money but.. no one's talking. This is development phase part two... directly across from me.

In truth.. if you leave a road open for a little more than ten years, it then belongs to the public. There is only a few more years left. So the cost benefit doesn't equal enough for a fight. Now I really got to learn how to back up out of my garage and turn without drive into the neighbor's house. I really get a kick watching the guys on the other side do that...
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby archylgp » 25 Jul 2012, 15:42

Taiwan_Student wrote:We've been through that a few years ago. There was a related thread here. Some neighbors on the other side protested and threatened to refuse. They then told us (them) that the town really needed this and if they refused there would be some unsaid trouble. They actually said.. "something bad will happen".

It was really funny. In the morning our local "leader" was a tiger. In the afternoon he was meek. I think some people were offered some money but.. no one's talking. This is development phase part two... directly across from me.

In truth.. if you leave a road open for a little more than ten years, it then belongs to the public. There is only a few more years left. So the cost benefit doesn't equal enough for a fight. Now I really got to learn how to back up out of my garage and turn without drive into the neighbor's house. I really get a kick watching the guys on the other side do that...


It's times like these when the Taiwanese government and the mob are one and the same.
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby dan2006 » 25 Jul 2012, 17:52

It would almost make one stop and think before deciding to buy a property here.

It seems that it is not really your property, and developers can "force" the issue and you can't do a thing about it.

That's were the keqi hua comes in (polite speech).. they are "asking" to use the land but they are not really "asking" and most Taiwanese would get the hint that it is not a request.
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby sandman » 25 Jul 2012, 17:58

dan2006 wrote:It seems that it is not really your property, and developers can "force" the issue and you can't do a thing about it.


Not so sure about that. Before we bought our place, the place we rented was on a block with around 20 homes on it. The developers had been wanting it ever since we moved in, but our landlord (absolutely no guanxi at all) was not willing to sell or move. That was the case for the entire 12 years we stayed there. The developers could do nothing. The landlord simply knew the law.
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby Mucha Man » 25 Jul 2012, 18:15

sandman wrote:
dan2006 wrote:It seems that it is not really your property, and developers can "force" the issue and you can't do a thing about it.


Not so sure about that. Before we bought our place, the place we rented was on a block with around 20 homes on it. The developers had been wanting it ever since we moved in, but our landlord (absolutely no guanxi at all) was not willing to sell or move. That was the case for the entire 12 years we stayed there. The developers could do nothing. The landlord simply knew the law.


Yes but the law states that only 2/3 of the owners if an area need to agree to a renewal project. So I think dan's point stands. All countries have laws to confiscate or buy up your property but Taiwan abuses this as almost no where else on earth. I read once that Taiwan sees more land expropiation a year than Japan, and Japan is already bad by world standards and of course is much larger.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby dan2006 » 25 Jul 2012, 19:16

Muzha Man wrote:
sandman wrote:
dan2006 wrote:It seems that it is not really your property, and developers can "force" the issue and you can't do a thing about it.


Not so sure about that. Before we bought our place, the place we rented was on a block with around 20 homes on it. The developers had been wanting it ever since we moved in, but our landlord (absolutely no guanxi at all) was not willing to sell or move. That was the case for the entire 12 years we stayed there. The developers could do nothing. The landlord simply knew the law.


Yes but the law states that only 2/3 of the owners if an area need to agree to a renewal project. So I think dan's point stands. All countries have laws to confiscate or buy up your property but Taiwan abuses this as almost no where else on earth. I read once that Taiwan sees more land expropiation a year than Japan, and Japan is already bad by world standards and of course is much larger.


I honestly am getting in over my head with this one because I have no experience with buying property in Taiwan. You and sandman probably have.

In Canada and a lot of other countries, expropriation can only be done if the person is offered fair market value. In a lot of cases, the developers offer a lot more money than market value to greese the gears. But in Taiwan, it seems from the news reports that once the developer has decided he wants the land, if you say no, all of a sudden the local government gets involved, courts, threats, etc.

Again I have no first hand experience so I'm out :lol:
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Re: Permission for rich developer to use our road in exchange for ... nothing.

Postby Taiwan_Student » 25 Jul 2012, 20:57

dan2006 wrote:It would almost make one stop and think before deciding to buy a property here.

It seems that it is not really your property, and developers can "force" the issue and you can't do a thing about it.

That's were the keqi hua comes in (polite speech).. they are "asking" to use the land but they are not really "asking" and most Taiwanese would get the hint that it is not a request.


Well they are not taking our property exactly. They are using our private road. The fish farm owners already sold the lot. I saw the tax maps. There is no access to it except through our private road, alley or what ever.. He will slice lot 701 up. and put up row houses as is the custom.

Why did they send two reps to us? What were they selling to us. We know we have no choice. But still would that money be better spent buy us a microwave or a toaster. I'm an American and former IT salesperson and tech support person. Toasters, microwaves, dishwashers or even squeeze toys would do wonders. I really don't care how nice his houses will be.. that is unless it gets me more students... That's a plus. But I preferred the sleepy lane where the kids could play un troubled by cars.
Americans feel better about hopeless situations as long as we can get consolation prizes. Why do they need our signature anyway... And why would a rich develper expect that we would gladly give our "rights" away with out so much as a token gift. Don't they have any sense.
BTW.. I had to badger the construction workers and owner to replace the blind spot mirror when they were working filling in the land some time ago... Later asked them if they thought the barbed wire protecting the land was really the right choice with a neighborhood full of children. He actually looked at me and thought about it and agreed. They finished putting up the barbed wire until lunch. Then after lunch they took it down and put up some safer wire fencing.
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