Two foreigners caught out on TV

[ritzinger]

I'm not entirely sure that Urbanjet wasn't serious when he said "you go do that." At any rate it's impossible tell unless he logs back on and clarifies.

Even if he was being sarcastic, I think we can forgive a bad day given that he is generally positively meticulous about responding to people. The guy is in love with the quote function.

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by v:
<strong>Also, Urb, you said that 'different cultures evolve at different speeds and in different ways', yet you do not want to compare how the western expats treat Taiwanese women vs the way Taiwanese men do. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Since I have only observed the superficial, I don't think I should be making any analysis on how western expat treat the local women. I'll just sound like a jackass.

As for my opinon on TW women seeking Western men, I would say that some women here are seeking someone exotic, others do it becuase they are more appealing to foreigners, and some do it because of the different dynamics (all legit reasons). All the beautiful white faces on those local fashion advertisements also make a good sell, don't you think? I like one theory that Asians find Western features attractive and vice-versa. But I do not think that applies for everyone since looks is only one part of the equation.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote

You think there are no differences between how these two groups of men treat local women? Didn't you just say that cultures evolve differently? Duuhh, western culture vs eastern culture? Two different cultures means two different paths to the treatment of women means that we can see differences in the ways western expats treat local women vs the way local men do. The line of reasoning that says 'men are the same everywhere so you can't say one group treats women better than another', or 'every country has an equal share of abusers of women' is just, what's the word I'm searching for? 'Dumb'

Again, I think those who knows more should be answering this, but I'll give it a shot. It is true that the women are treated differently, but I don't think you can say one group treats women "better" than another (which some posters try to prove). A woman will seek the man that treats her the best regardless of the race. At least that's how the smart ones will do.

The only qualfied ones to speak on this subject are the women who have been in relationships with MANY men of both types. Which is really not possible. However, that's how statistics works. You cannot draw a good conclusion based on a small sample pool.

Western man seem to be more popular here has to do with statistics. Go to Hong Kong/Singapore and see what type of popularity they enjoy compare with Taiwan. Many of the guys here admitted on the "why Taiwanese women are attracted to Western men" thread that it has little to do with how they treat the women. Their popularity may even tempt them to treat the women differently than they would at home. This factor alone would ruin the integrity of the analysis.

Some French women think Asian men treat women better than western men while some American women consider French men more romantic. Some ABC girls date white men exclusively while others date Asian men exclusively. Some Japanese women prefer African American while some thinks that they fool around. Its not better or worst, its individual compatible issue.

p.s. Is this what you wanted to discuss or I've just wasted time on the wrong thing? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by aarondbu:
<strong>V makes a good point about the necessity of examining the social diffrences/ gender issues of given people groups, and making distinctions based on reason and observation, but you just gloss over it with a childish answer. Whats up with that?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Instead of discussing the necessity for the discussion, why doesn't someone just do the discussion? My contribution is not essential, is it?

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by v:
<strong>And I think the various male points of view are very instructive (for example, the thread where expats were describing what makes a good prostitute here in Taiwan). Your last comment 'you go do that' is just pa (passive-aggressive)/immature. I'm going to guess that you are in your early to mid 20s. Yes? Just like to test my intuition.</strong><hr></blockquote>

V,

I'd like to apologize to you for sounding offensive. I thought (wrongly) that you were badgering for a subject that I don't know much about. I have to admit that I do not understand why men abuse women.

I am not saying that it shouldn't be discussed. Just thought that the people here probably lack the level of insight you're seeking. As you have read from the earlier postings, most of the discussion went like this:

" I saw your people do this to women " or

" I saw your people did this to those children"

With the intend to prove the other race was more sexually dysfunctional. Productive discussion? I didn't think so. If they had analyze it the way Sandman would (with a "clinical" eye), then it probably would be worth our time. Otherwise, it was racially motivated slurs with no substance.

BTW, I didn't read the "good prostitute" thread, so not sure how much value those confessionals were. I did read a book about Thailand sex trade by an American women (it was her thesis). My Thai co-workers were very offended to see me read that book. The author did offered some interesting analysis, but I don't want to sound like I'm targeting any racial groups.

While I was not being cynical with that last line "You go do that", it does sound disrespectful. I apologize.

Although I like to think I look like the age range you pointed out, I'm actually a few years older. MLD is in his 50's and he still has some "youthful indiscretion" sort of talk. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[aarondbu]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Urbanjet:
<strong>

Instead of discussing the necessity for the discussion, why doesn't someone just do the discussion? My contribution is not essential, is it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

because I really have nothing of value to add [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

No really, when I don't know much about the subject I try to keep my mouth shut. but being a former debater, I sometimes amuse myself with pointing out really bad analysis etc... Plus it seemed like you were blowing v off.

But I gotta say, your last 2 posts were really cool, and I'm glad you gave her arg's a little more attention.

Your a great poster bro, (wrong alot of the time, [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] but I good poster none the less)

[v]

I don't have a lot of time to reply since I have to go and clean my junked up house, but one way at getting at the status of women in a particular country is to look at its laws. What are the divorce laws in different countries? What are the laws regarding infidelity by women (some countries have no laws about this, other countries allow 'honor killings'). The way women are treated and allow themselves to be treated around the world is not simply a matter of the individual. Although it is optimal to resist the negative influences of ones culture (and it is possible to resist to some extent anyway), those influences do exist and are reflected in law.

[v]

Urb was saying that the way we treat each other is simply a matter of individual difference. My point is that the culture you grew up in affects (effects ?) your thinking to some extent. Therefore, we should take culture into account when trying to explain the behavior of western expats vs locals. I think this is a pretty elementary point that urb doesn't seem to agree with.

[littleiron]

Thomas, I'm pretty sure you're a troll, but if not I think it's in everyone's best interest if you stay in the US. And apparently away from any 'China towns.' Thanks.

[Mwalimu]

Thomas Jefferson. Wouldn't you be happier posting on an Aryan Brotherhood site?

I sure hope you are just a troll.

[RAman28]

I'm thoroughly disgusted when I read how foreigners are treated in Taiwan. What is so pathetic about locals in Taiwan is that they forget to realize that everything they own and do is the result of being under the protection of the United States (and other Western countries). If it wasn't for us, they would've been nothing more than rice farmers for Chairman Mao. Now that I think about it... thats probably how it should've been. Our bad.