Two foreigners caught out on TV

by **mai_longdong** » 28 Apr 2002, 14:37

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Urbanjet:


I'm just amazed at how exact MLD can describe the location of brothels in Taipei.<hr></blockquote>

Real simple....Snake Alley stories have been in the papers here for years and published in even the most common guide books to Taiwan. Hua-hsi St. is a very famous tourist destination and I've been here along time. I'm apperently MUCH more familiar with Taipei than you. And by the way, I've never had to pay for it.....that's probably what burns you. Right?

by **mai_longdong** » 28 Apr 2002, 14:47

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Urbanjet:

So all Asians live in Chinatown back in the States? [/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Why should *all* Asians want to live in Chinatowns? I can't imagine why Thais, Koreans, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Indonesians, etc, etc would want to live in one. But, can you please tell me who DOES live in the various Chinatowns such as "Hsiao Taipei"? I doubt if they are Swiss.

BTW, if anyone whould like to research Asian-American demographics, a great site to start at is http://www.goldsea.com

by **amos** » 29 Apr 2002, 00:26

OK, my bad. The show was on between about 8:30 and 9:30 last night. Dunno what was going on, but that mother was a nut case.

by **littleiron** » 29 Apr 2002, 01:57

Mr. Sanders,

You make some good points in general. However I have to take issue with two comments. One is that people shouldn't get offended when racism occurs against them (or anybody else for that matter).

"it's no use getting upset about it because if it really bothers you ... you might as well go home"

Well, it does get me upset. It should get me upset. If it doesn't get someone else upset, they have their own problems, and they are just passively encouraging racism. After I discussed this with my friends, some actually came to realize why stuff like this is wrong, and they became much less likely to do it themselves in the future. Complaining, however annoying, is the first step to changing things (albeit slowly). Anyways, if someone lies to me, refuses me something, or assaults me, simply because of my race... I'm not just going to turn the other cheek. (Likewise if I see it happening to someone else).

The other issue is your overall tone of your statement (perhaps I misinterpreted it). You seem to be saying that I (and anyone like me, I assume) deserve to be discriminated against because as a member of my sociocultural group (ie, middle-class white), I deserve it. "We" do it to others all the time, so "we" deserve anything that comes "our" way.
I was brought up middle-class, and I am white. I was very lucky; my parents always taught me not to look at a person's race, but their heart; and they truly practiced what they preached (for which I'm forever thankful to them). Sorry, but because others in my socioeconomic class have it good and some perpetuate racism, I don't think I deserve to be discriminated against.
I agree, being discriminated against is an enlightening experience, and probably really a really good one to those who do the same to others (IMHO).

And just becuase I don't accept racism, and it does bother me, doesn't mean I should 'go home.' Sorry, I am home. (What about the racism I saw in the states perpetuated against others? That bothered me. Does that mean I should 'leave the US?')

by **mai_longdong** » 29 Apr 2002, 01:58

There's a great story in today's Straits Times (Singapore):

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,116734,00.html?

Interesting, yes?

by v » 29 Apr 2002, 11:47

Urbanjet, you have never seen brothels in Taiwan?! When ever I get into a discussion criticizing something about Taiwan, the pro-Taiwan side always comes up with-"you can find those kinds of examples in all countries", "there are ignorant people everywhere", etc. The key is, is the behavior mentioned more widespread/tacitly accepted in Taiwan? If so, besides ranting and raving, is there anything we can do about it short of leaving Taiwan? For example, in the Teach Taiwan forum where they talk about discrimination against non-white English teachers, I propose that white English teachers boycott the buxibans with those hiring policies. Some bushians with non-discriminatory hiring policies exist as Tai Le Meiguoren pointed out. I asked Tai to tell us the name of that school, but I don't think she has responded yet. As for Mai LongDong and his family's experiences, as any parent knows, it's one thing when you are treated with disrespect because of your race;it's 100 times worse when your children are involved. In general, Mai, haven't you found that you have gotten more compliments about your children? I have hun xie er too, and I have always had positive experiences (i moved from Taiwan when my child was 18 months, however). Also, an important difference is that I am a white female. You as a white male may evoke a defensive response from a certain kind of Chinese for stealing their women.

by **Anonymous** » 29 Apr 2002, 14:00

<blockquote>quote

Hua-hsi St. is a very famous tourist destination and I've been here along time. I'm apperently MUCH more familiar with Taipei than you.

I usually avoid tourist spots.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>And by the way, I've never had to pay for it.....that's probably what burns you. Right?
<hr></blockquote>

I could really care less. Please don't be presumptuouos.

by **Anonymous** » 29 Apr 2002, 14:14

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Why should *all* Asians want to live in Chinatowns....But, can you please tell me who DOES live in the various Chinatowns such as "Hsiao Taipei"? I doubt if they are Swiss.
<hr></blockquote>

No Swiss (not a large population anywhere in SoCal), but there are Mexican, White, Japanese, Koreans, etc. Chinese visit Xiao Taipei on the weekends (for stores and restaurants), so it may seem like they're all residents. Go to the city hall, library, court and see who the residents are.

For someone who lives in Tianmu, you of all people should understand why minorities sometimes prefer to live in their own "ghetto".

Anywyas, the main point is that your original quote below is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE to Asian Americans. Sad that you go around accusing the Taiwanese for being insensitive and yet it's completely ok that you do it. Sad.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Original quote by Mai Longdong
What's the matter, Chinatown back in the States get to rough for you? Don't worry, now that you've got your US passport
<hr></blockquote>

by **Anonymous** » 29 Apr 2002, 14:27

<blockquote>quote

Urbanjet, you have never seen brothels in Taiwan?!

Why is everyone so surprise? Is there a good night market nearby that I'm missing? Although I have only been here for 5 months, I've been visiting a new part of Taipei (or Taiwan) almost every weekend. In any case, I don't know what this has to do with our racist discussion.

FACT: Plenty of men prey on women (regardless of size, color, age). I don't think the foreigners are worst than Taiwanese nor do I think the other way around. Ok, lets drop all digressions.

67 Recommends(s) · by **maoman** » 29 Apr 2002, 16:07

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Urbanjet:
FACT: Plenty of men prey on women regardless of size, color, age). I don't think foreigners are worse than Taiwanese nor do I think the other way around.<hr></blockquote>In a perfect world, all cultures would be equal in their vices and virtues. Alas, it is not so. Just as some cultures are known for the genius of their composers, others are known for the genius of their engineers, or the cleverness of their artisans. And while it is agreed that a certain amount of lechery takes place in all countries, the degree of the vice and the frequency it is encountered varies according to location and culture. In Japan, there have been reports of businessmen buying the soiled underpants of schoolgirls in vending machines. In Taipei or LA, dirty knickers wouldn't be such a hot commodity. In Taipei, the Zhongshan district is famous for its hostess bars. Toronto, a city of comparable size, does not have such a district. Are there no strip bars in Canada? Of course. Are they frequented by businessmen the way businessmen here frequent hostess bars? Not even close. Not one of my friends, nor one of my father's friends have ever considered getting a xiao laopo. Nor would they consider Shanghai to be a "man's paradise", and pray for a transfer to China so that they can indulge their hormones there in relative anonymity. The sad fact is, while sex has always been moderately open in North America, and extremely open in northern Europe and Scandinavia, the commercialization and exploitation taking place here in Taiwan would be enough to make a Dane blush. I've seen TV news reports of high school girls practice the phallically suggestive pole dance outside shopping malls on stages, while Sunday shoppers ogle. One cannot drive outside any major city in Taiwan without encountering betelnut girls selling illegal produce in illegaly structures alongside public roads. I cannot think of the last time a Canadian MP was filmed having sex with a married lover. (Thank God for small mercies!) If one WERE caught in the act, it is highly unlikely that they would then decide to start a career in showbiz. Prostitution in Thailand is popular with many foreign visitors, including westerners and Asians, but the real backbone of the industry is local custom. I daresay the situation is the same in Taiwan. Whereas western men are used to fulfilling their sexual needs through consensual and sometimes casual sex with women they meet, Asian men tend to want to pay for it. My Taiwanese friend explained that not only is there no potential loss of face as a customner is never rejected, it also saves complications encountered by having a girlfriend on the side. For me and my peers, the only loss of face would come from having to pay for a girl to sit with us in order to get laid. Taiwan has sex on the brain, and to perpetuate the myth of foreigners' more abhorrent or deviant sexual exploits is a whitewash of local practices. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

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