Are you buying a house here or there?

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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby Mr He » 22 Jun 2002, 00:10

While a majority of the residential buildings designed by the architect THYRDRAIL seems to like would appear bland to a Dane, they are nevertheless a major improvement on the toilet tile concrete caves most of us live in here. Too bad they are so few and far between.
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby poop » 22 Jun 2002, 01:20

Taiwan is one of the most overpriced, overated property markets in the world.

Some facts:
1. 85% of all Taiwanese already own their own homes.

2. vacancy rates reach 15-20% for some areas of Taiwan.

3. Many factories, companies, individuals have relocated to China leaving more vacancies.

Morris Chang of Taiwan Semiconductor came out and said the Taiwanese average yearly wage is likely to stay at its current level for years to come as Taiwan has reached a kind of economic developmental plateau.

Talk to vendors on the street even in seemingly successful business areas of Taiwan. They will all tell you that BUSINESS IS WAY DOWN and it is hard to make a lving compared to 10 years ago.

It isnt just Taipei. Prices in Yilan county are also VERY high.

I would like to own a home here but it is out of my reach even though I earn a decent salary.

My impression is that the few wealthy people who control most of the property coming on to the market have always manipulated the situation creating an artificial market with high prices.

After all, they are loaded with cash and property, why do they need to lower their prices for anyone? Then there is also the attitude that the Taiwan economy will miraculously return to its glory days boom days so I guess I just wait it out.
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby chung » 22 Jun 2002, 04:58

Morris Chang just bought himself a 200p penthouse - really nice roof top garden with a fantastic view of the city from the livingroom. I can't remember exactly, but I think he paid about NT200,000,000.
Seems he has lots of confidence in the property market!
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby Comrade Stalin » 22 Jun 2002, 05:13

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by chung:
<strong>Morris Chang just bought himself a 200p penthouse - really nice roof top garden with a fantastic view of the city from the livingroom. I can't remember exactly, but I think he paid about NT200,000,000.
Seems he has lots of confidence in the property market!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wonder what a few PRC SCUD missiles test fired across the Taiwan Straits would do to the value of his penthouse.....
[img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby Rascal » 22 Jun 2002, 05:44

Seems he has lots of confidence in the property market!

You could also say some people have more money than sense. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby thyrdrail » 22 Jun 2002, 06:01

Woooow...that many people in Taiwan own homes?? That's waaaay higher than home ownership in the States. Why do they keep building residential buildings then. New complexes are constantly being advertised in Taiwanese magazines.

Ya, I do think those buildings are a big improvement over bathroom-tile covered buildings. But I think some of those buildings look even nicer than some of the buildings built in the States, like in NYC. We have tons of bland, ugly, brown brick buildings or concrete buildings. I think mediocrity in architecture is universal. I wonder if there's a forum in NYC for foreigners/expats who criticize the bland, mediocre architecture of some of the buildings in NY.

Ya, I read the same article about Morris Chang, but he said things can improve with major bureacratic, market reform, etc. He said Taiwan's per capita is $13k about. But CIA lists as $17k. Then The Economist lists as US$13,925 (2000) and US$22,646 (2000), at PPP. Who's an economist who can explain what PPP is??
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby thyrdrail » 22 Jun 2002, 06:11

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rascal:
<strong>Seems he has lots of confidence in the property market!

You could also say some people have more money than sense. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>


When you have money, you don't need sense, dude.

Does anyone know of the luxury condominium complex that's designed by Kenzo Tange currently planned for construction in Taipei I think? It's 4 or 5 towers with big garden and cost US$3-12 million supposedly. Pictures were posted in skyscraper.com last year, but nobody has heard about it since.
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby Fox » 22 Jun 2002, 08:57

I don't thnk it makes much financial sense to buy a house in Taiwan.

I live in a place in Neihu, that my landlord wants 15,000,000 NT for and I pay 20,000 NT rent per month. It is in a beautiful location not far from DaHu lake with mountain views. It would be impossible to buy a place like this. The mortgage payments alone after borrowing my 2,000,000 at 2% and the rest at 6% would be about 70,000 NT per month.

Places like mine are not impossible to find in Taiwan, obviously. With a little persistance and flexibility about where you want to live they abound.

However, the smart money would be to buy a place in your home country where it almost certainly will appreciate over time. As much as it is a hassle to look after from afar, it's still worth it for the capital gain, and peace of mind. Buying at the right end of the market can sometimes help with ensuring good tenants the type that pay off your mortgage for you. And it's the easiest way to leverage 50,000 dollars into 300,000 going.
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby Mr He » 22 Jun 2002, 09:05

I am not an economist, but:

PPP stands for Purchasing Power Parity.

This means that the calculation takes living costs and general price levels into account and is supposed to make international comparisions easier. Food is cheap in China, but expensive in Denmark. The difference in GDP per capita therefore decreases, when PPP is used instead of an exchange rated GDP figure.

However, there are many ways of calculating PPP, so PPP figures should be used with caution. Hope this helps.
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Are you buying a house here or there?

Postby Traveller » 22 Jun 2002, 09:22

Purchasing a property in Taiwan makes sense if you are planning on staying here for a long time, realistic minimum of ten years. At that point the likely drop in property values can be more than offset by the value paid in rent in the same period.

I bought a property in Neihu several years ago at a good price, and I am still approx 50% ahead on value ignoring any mortgage payments made, which are about the same as renting in the same area, i pay approx NT 19,000 for a three bedroom aprtment also close to DaHu.

If you are only planning to stay for a short time, or are buying for investment purposes then your home country is generally the best bet, as there are no problems about legal ownership.
The other option but obviously more risky is to consider the property hotspots around the world and invest in one of them.

I have to be honest and say that I do not believe those ownership rates to be true, or at least not for the whole of Taiwan. Whilst it maybe true for the more rural areas it is certainly doubtful for Taipei.
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