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Brawl @ the Xinzhu Pig & Whistle - 7 Foreigners injured

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Postby danny » 23 May 2004, 09:58

If they don't press charges, they will be partly responsible for the next attack on whomever.
We all know that too but what can we do? We can't do anything but put pressure on the pub to improve security. Maybe persuade the victims to sue? I think that you'll see them around in Taipei.

Anyways the foreigners can still press charges against the assailants within six months(according to Taiwan law). So they can still change their mind anytime within the following six months.


The gangster that I was talking to said that the one of the foreigners had hit his friend and that's what his friend told him. That's when they decided to jumped the foreigners and beat them.

But according to what I saw and what the foreigners told me.......the local gangsters were just looking for a fight.

The dance floor is pretty crowded and getting bumped by the person beside(anywhere) you is unavoidable. I think that this could've triggered this vicious violence. Local gangster can take a "bump" and say that you "hit" them. And rough you up. But the violence that I saw at Pig&Whistle was very vicious.

It's the first time that I've seen so much blood everywhere. I had some on my shoes and face. I guess that I got some blood flying off the bat as he was batting the girls head.

I'll get some more answers from the gangster when I see him again and keep my ears open to rumors circulating around town.
I'll ask the manager, Scott, whether the gangster's claim as being the bouncer at the pub is true or not. Because if it is true..... Pig&Whistle beat their own customers.

These foreigners came down from Taipei to have a good time in Hsinchu. From what I've seen these foreigners are nice people and not like the ones that are obnoxiously rude and shove people around. They said that they can forgive their assailants. Well....I don't have that much forgiveness and love in my heart for any vicious criminal that would do such a thing.

It's sad to see nice people get hurt.

I guess their week is pretty much spoiled. And they'll always have those scars to remind them of the GOOD times in Taiwan.
danny
 
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Postby skeptic yank » 23 May 2004, 10:47

pig and whistle Hsinchu is wide open. the first floor closes early and the dancing happens on the second floor. just a simple walk up. oftentimes, no one is at the door at all. getting a bat (or worse) in would be a breeze.
Missouri loves company
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Postby MJB » 23 May 2004, 11:08

This is disturbing...........

But a group of 7 people should be able to hold their own against locals of twice their number.........Did they fight back? And are you positive the group did nothing to provoke this?

The victims in question have a right to compenstion from the gangsters themselves. They broken some serious code here by attacking these people with no provacation. You need to find out who the 'Da Ge' is for these little punks and present your case..........There will be money and apologies to be had. Hitting a girl with a baseball bat?.........Them's fightin words where I come from. Go back to the bar, get some information, talk to your 'friend', contact the Taipei foreign affairs police, and find out who the Da Ge is!...........Don't let this slide!

Which comes to my last question..........Call me old fashioned, but when a woman gets attacked in my presence by a man (with a bat no less!), the man in question is going to do some heavy hospital time regardless of what happens after! You said you were 'almost injured' and that 'you had blood on you'........But yet you stood by and did nothing? You made no attempt to intervene on the womans behalf? I realize that we're not on home turf, and fighting can be scary, but some things are too cowardly to ignore. This is not meant to offend,and I also realize I wasn't there, but reading this is making me angry :bluemad: :bluemad: :bluemad:

Does this mean that once we move to Taiwan our sense of chivalry dies?
Nemo enim fere saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit
MJB
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Postby ski » 23 May 2004, 11:34

Michael J Botti wrote:This is disturbing...........But a group of 7 people should be able to hold their own against locals of twice their number.........

??? :s

Most people would buckel under the threat of violence. Fight or Flight. Most would choose flight in some form or another. The foreigners had no chance for either.

As for taking on a local...most would never pick a fight with anyone...it's the one who does want to pick a fight that can whoop most peoples asses. He knows it that's why he'll do it. Case in point last night. They knew that these guys would be easy to beat. If not they wouldn't have done it.

Ski
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Postby almas john » 23 May 2004, 11:59

Has there been any local media coverage? Are some of them in hospital?

Most of the Taiwanese bouncers which I have seen were pretty useless.
Back home in N.Z. bouncers are usually hard bastards;They basically just come in two models: your defuse-the-situation hard bastard and your "wanna give someone a kicking" hard bastard.

As for the foreigners fighting back, I'm not sure that they had a chance. It might have happened too quickly for them to react - all over in a couple of seconds. It takes only one half-decent punch to drop a person.


[Moderators note: For technical reasons, this thread has become too long and is continued HERE]
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Postby danny » 23 May 2004, 12:26

almas john wrote:Has there been any local media coverage? Are some of them in hospital?

As for the foreigners fighting back, I'm not sure that they had a chance. It might have happened too quickly for them to react - it could have all been over in a couple of seconds.


No media showed up. There should be a coverage to get the attention of the government on issues like this. The assailants could've been charged with disrupting the peace or something(whether or not charges are filed by the foreigners)....but they are free. They weren't even taken in for questioning and the foreign affairs police didn't show up. The local police didn't contact them. The police didn't even look at the IDs of the assailants when I pointed them out. Anyways I still remember their faces and Hsinchu is such a small town....I'll see them around and will be able to assist in identifying them.

I left the emergency room after each victim decided not to press charges. Some of them wanted to press charges but were persuaded by another foreigner not to....fearing attack by gangsters.

As for foreigners fighting back....no chance at all against chairs and a bat. The fight lasted around 3-5 minutes. A lot of damage was done in that time.

The license plate number for the assailant with the bat: LW-9515 or was it LW-9151. Silver Mitsubishi.

If you are one of the victims and change your mind about not pressing charges and need a witness PM me.
danny
 
{ AUTHOR_TOPIC }



Postby Tigerman » 23 May 2004, 12:44

danny wrote:The police didn't even look at the IDs of the assailants when I pointed them out.


I thought you said the assailants fled prior to the time that the police arrived. ??? In your initial post you stated:

danny wrote:The police got there as the attackers were driving off in their car.


I'm confused.

danny wrote:I left the emergency room after each victim decided not to press charges. Some of them wanted to press charges but were persuaded by another foreigner not to....fearing attack by gangsters.


Why were you at the hospital? You also said that you spoke with one of the gangsters at the hospital... why was the gangster at the hospital? And why would they be speaking with you after you pointed them out to the police????

danny wrote:As for foreigners fighting back....no chance at all against chairs and a bat. The fight lasted around 3-5 minutes. A lot of damage was done in that time.


That is a long time for a fight. Especially one in which one group is attacked by surprise with chairs and bats.

danny wrote:The license plate number for the assailant with the bat: LW-9515 or was it LW-9151. Silver Mitsubishi.


How were you able to get that?

This is all very confusing.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
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Postby MJB » 23 May 2004, 13:16

Point taken..........But these folks had no choice for flight from the sounds of it. Also, the priority should have been protecting the girl, no matter what your feelings about fighting may be.

In 1992, A gangster punk hit me over the head with a brick. Despite filling my shoes completely with blood, I finished the job at hand and took the stitches afterwards.......I myself would choose flight over fight if flight presents itself, but what happens when it doesn't? Do we sit back and allow ourselves to be subject to a whipping?..........Maybe I'm too much the simpleton but it seems to me if you got no choice, take a couple with you. They got their asses stomped anyway, and there can't be anything more satisfying to a gangster punk here than taking down a foreigner. The little bastards will be gloating over this for weeks.

I'm not a badass or a tough guy.......But if you throw the first blow or hit a woman in front of me, there will be a fight. Like I said, I'm an old fashioned simpleton, but I believe and endorse the right to protect oneself if all other options have been exhuasted. For the three times I've had to do it in Taiwan, the fear is mostly just before it starts, the unknown factor. Once it starts, it's not that bad, you either get your ass kicked, or kick somebody elses......It never really hurts until the next day anyway.

And ski, I agree with you 100%. Most locals won't hassle a foreigner that potrays an attitude of 'mess with me at your peril'. My advice to the rest is to stay out of bars frequented by gangsters. I play in pool tournaments with gangsters every week and don't get hassled by anyone.

Funny no one seems to share my indignation about the girl getting whacked with a baseball bat. Maybe attitudes really have changed in the west. Maybe men don't stop and help women anymore when their car breaks down or when they are hassled by unsavory characters. I haven't been home in a looong time (ten years), have attitudes changed that much?

Is the white knight dead?



Just my two cents...............
Nemo enim fere saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit
MJB
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Postby danny » 23 May 2004, 13:23

I went to hospital to assist the foreigners if they wanted to press charges. The local police will not contact the Foreign Affairs Police for you. It is your own problem. I was willing to contact the Foreign Affairs Police for them and be the eyewitness. Other foreigners just didn't want to get involved in anyway so I felt obliged.

The assailants went to hospital to where the foreigners were threatening them and at the same time saying that they were friends. I pointed them out to the police keeping my voice low. I then told the gangster that I was just translating for the two groups. One being the foreigners and the Chinese(police and gangsters) being the other group.


The first attack was with an ashtray, fists and some chairs. Then I followed one of the assailants out and got his license plate number. I then saw him get a bat out of his car. He walked toward the entrance and wait for his first bat. A foreigner came out and got wacked on the head. Then he proceeded to the second floor(disco pub) and wacked the South African girl on the head. Her face was just so bloody!

My actions aren't heroic in anyway....I could've help them fight those bastards but I had no guts against chairs and a bat. Even the other foreigners in the pub didn't help. Everyone was scared sh*tless. I thought that at least I could get a license plate number to help aid in apprehension of the assailants if they should flee the scene. Usually if you have nothing the cops won't really look for them unless you are murdered.

I still feel bad about just watching and being a coward!
danny
 
{ AUTHOR_TOPIC }



Postby danny » 23 May 2004, 13:29

Michael J Botti wrote:Point taken..........But these folks had no choice for flight from the sounds of it. Also, the priority should have been protecting the girl, no matter what your feelings about fighting may be.


No one could protect anyone. Everyone was getting hit ......even the girl being protected became the target for the batter. They were tearing the group from all sides. Like wolves circling the sheep and going in for the kill.
danny
 
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