Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby bismarck » 01 Apr 2012, 03:04

finley wrote:Apparently, most of the US brass had an extremely low opinion of him.

Everyone except his rabid followers and hanger ons had a low opinion of him. He was a hopped up uneducated petty gangsta from Shanghai that got bested by a a better man, lost a country and then came here to prey on the weak in a time of turmoil and transition. He was a petty thug.
What's whack is that his peanut head is on all the coins and there's a gauche memorial in his "honour" taking up a shit load of real estate in Taipei.

General Cash My Check, they called him.
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby PigBloodCake » 01 Apr 2012, 22:30

bismarck wrote:
finley wrote:Apparently, most of the US brass had an extremely low opinion of him.

Everyone except his rabid followers and hanger ons had a low opinion of him. He was a hopped up uneducated petty gangsta from Shanghai that got bested by a a better man, lost a country and then came here to prey on the weak in a time of turmoil and transition. He was a petty thug.
What's whack is that his peanut head is on all the coins and there's a gauche memorial in his "honour" taking up a shit load of real estate in Taipei.

General Cash My Check, they called him.


God I wish you can drill this into every single one of those dumbf*ck KMTs that are still worshiping him. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby ChewDawg » 02 Apr 2012, 10:54

PigBloodCake wrote:
bismarck wrote:
finley wrote:Apparently, most of the US brass had an extremely low opinion of him.

Everyone except his rabid followers and hanger ons had a low opinion of him. He was a hopped up uneducated petty gangsta from Shanghai that got bested by a a better man, lost a country and then came here to prey on the weak in a time of turmoil and transition. He was a petty thug.
What's whack is that his peanut head is on all the coins and there's a gauche memorial in his "honour" taking up a shit load of real estate in Taipei.

General Cash My Check, they called him.


God I wish you can drill this into every single one of those dumbf*ck KMTs that are still worshiping him. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Was he corrupt? Sure. Did US generals in WW2 such as Vinegar Joe Stilwell have a low opinion of him? Sure. Does it get tiring listening to Caucasians and/or foreigners complain about him almost 40 years after he died. Fuck ya. At least with American help, Taiwan under CKS/CCK/LTH remained somewhat free and didn't have to go through the dislocation of the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution etc. (and no I don't think White terror is 1/1,000,000 as comparable).

Bismarck, once you obtain ROC citizenship, perhaps you will appreciate more fully the pragmatism of the KMT in prioritizing economic development and not rocking the boat. Because Taiwan without the Japanese or mainlander elites ruling it would be letting the lunatics run the asylum (sort of like the Chen years :lol: ) It would become a basket case of Asia with a much lower GDP. It would be a lawless place sort of like Taiwan's countryside outside of central Taipei. It was the fusion/combination of American money, Chinese aristocrats/business elites that fled, and hard work of the Taiwanese that led to the Taiwan miracle (not all the latter as some green mouthpieces/taike element would have you believe).
So I got an expresso and a hot burrito!
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby finley » 02 Apr 2012, 11:23

I rarely seem to agree with ChewDawg but he has a point there. The Peanutissimo, and most of his cronies, are dead and gone - good riddance. That means the KMT is no longer "The KMT". It's just a name, a convenient abbreviation for a bunch of people with similar (but continually changing) policy ideals. Same with the DPP, even, which despite having a far shorter history than the KMT is no longer the same party that Chen brought to power.

And it is funny how things work out. CKS may have been an asshole and an idiot, but his son wasn't. Nobody could have predicted that things turned out the way they did. If Taiwan's US patrons had decided (as they could have done, and frequently did) to replace CKS with someone of their own choosing, Taiwan might be like Burma or the Philippines now.

What's whack is that his peanut head is on all the coins and there's a gauche memorial in his "honour" taking up a shit load of real estate in Taipei.

That is whack. I remember being mightily confused about that when I first got to Taiwan. I made tentative enquiries with friends - that CKS, he was a dictator, wasn't he? - and their answer was, oh, yeah, sure, but things are all different now. It didn't seem to occur to them that glowing references to him might be a bit ... anachronistic.
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby PigBloodCake » 02 Apr 2012, 11:24

ChewDawg wrote:
PigBloodCake wrote:
bismarck wrote:
finley wrote:Apparently, most of the US brass had an extremely low opinion of him.

Everyone except his rabid followers and hanger ons had a low opinion of him. He was a hopped up uneducated petty gangsta from Shanghai that got bested by a a better man, lost a country and then came here to prey on the weak in a time of turmoil and transition. He was a petty thug.
What's whack is that his peanut head is on all the coins and there's a gauche memorial in his "honour" taking up a shit load of real estate in Taipei.

General Cash My Check, they called him.


God I wish you can drill this into every single one of those dumbf*ck KMTs that are still worshiping him. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Was he corrupt? Sure. Did US generals in WW2 such as Vinegar Joe Stilwell have a low opinion of him? Sure. Does it get tiring listening to Caucasians and/or foreigners complain about him almost 40 years after he died. Fuck ya. At least with American help, Taiwan under CKS/CCK/LTH remained somewhat free and didn't have to go through the dislocation of the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution etc. (and no I don't think White terror is 1/1,000,000 as comparable).

Bismarck, once you obtain ROC citizenship, perhaps you will appreciate more fully the pragmatism of the KMT in prioritizing economic development and not rocking the boat. Because Taiwan without the Japanese or mainlander elites ruling it would be letting the lunatics run the asylum (sort of like the Chen years :lol: ) It would become a basket case of Asia with a much lower GDP. It would be a lawless place sort of like Taiwan's countryside outside of central Taipei. It was the fusion/combination of American money, Chinese aristocrats/business elites that fled, and hard work of the Taiwanese that led to the Taiwan miracle (not all the latter as some green mouthpieces/taike element would have you believe).


Do you honestly think the 'wan would be what it is today if CCK went Assad?

Luckily he didn't (and a few old-timer KMTs are pissed that he actually ruined their status quo).
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby bismarck » 02 Apr 2012, 13:50

PigBloodCake wrote:Luckily he didn't (and a few old-timer KMTs are pissed that he actually ruined their status quo).

Yeah, he fucked up more than anything else.

Taiwan was never fully part of China. In 1895 it was ceded to Japan and had nothing to do with the second World War and as such should not have been on the table as "spoils".
It should either have remained part of Japan or been placed under US administration (without letting in a boat load of Shanghai gangsters and their cronies), in either case it would still have become an Asian beacon of development and democracy, especially if the latter path was followed.
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Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby bismarck » 02 Apr 2012, 13:53

Anyway, back to whack stuff. So I go with my SO to Qigu to visit the fabled Salt Mountain on Saturday. On the drive back we stop at a 7-11 for drinks and I pop in to use the toilet. After I wash and dry my hands I throw the paper into the garbage bin only to see a discarded box of ... Viagra.

WTF? Who takes Viagra in a 7-11 toilet??? :eek:
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Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby Nuit » 02 Apr 2012, 14:08

bismarck wrote:WTF? Who takes Viagra in a 7-11 toilet??? :eek:


Think of that next time you're about to embark on a long 5 hour car journey with the wife.
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby ChewDawg » 02 Apr 2012, 14:17

bismarck wrote:Taiwan was never fully part of China. In 1895 it was ceded to Japan and had nothing to do with the second World War and as such should not have been on the table as "spoils".


It had everything to do with WW2. I just think WW2 for Japan really started in 1904 and it got mixed signals from the US.

Japanese behavior in World War Two was nothing new--it's just this time the Americans were against their aggressive actions. The Japanese used a surprise attack similar to Pearl Harbour against the Russians when they kicked their ass in war in 1904.

The difference was that the US under Teddy Roosevelt was fine with Japan taking a much greater role as a civilizing force against barbaric races/regions (whether weaker Asian countries or the Slavic race in general as exemplified by the Russians) and they had no problems with that surprise attack on Russia. They tacitly allowed Japan to have it's own Monroe doctrine in the Pacific (sphere of influence). However, the US screwed the Japanese after 1904 by not agreeing that Russia should pay Japan financial reparations for the war. Had the US gone to bat for the Japanese in 1904, WW2 nearly 40 years later would have likely never happened. They would have seen each other as partners/civilizing forces rather than competitors with historical grievances.


It should either have remained part of Japan or been placed under US administration (without letting in a boat load of Shanghai gangsters and their cronies), in either case it would still have become an Asian beacon of development and democracy, especially if the latter path was followed.


Just being ruled by the US doesn't mean it would be an Asian beacon on development and democracy. If that was the case, the Philippines would be Singapore. They aren't. :lol: Likewise, if Taiwan remained part of Japan, there wouldn't have been as much post-war protection/aid from the US or the influx of dynamic DNA from the aristocrats/business elite that fled China to Taiwan. With a weak de-militarized government ruling Taiwan from Tokyo and just Taiwanese, Mao would have invaded. The aboriginals would have held out longer. Or,if it remained Japanese, Taiwan would have been a sleepy province like Okinawa. High economic indicators but not a powerhouse in IT, manufacturing etc.

No the best choice was huge American aid/money to a government in exile, the KMT talent that came over, and a compliant workforce. In other words, things happened as they should!!!! :lol:
So I got an expresso and a hot burrito!
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Re: Whack Things in Taiwan (part 3)

Postby bismarck » 02 Apr 2012, 14:30

Nuit wrote:
bismarck wrote:WTF? Who takes Viagra in a 7-11 toilet??? :eek:


Think of that next time you're about to embark on a long 5 hour car journey with the wife.

Guess I'm still too young to worry about that. :D
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Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
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