Be grateful to be in Taiwan

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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby bismarck » 22 May 2011, 14:42

Huang Guang Chen wrote:I guess horses work, because there's not many of them in Taiwan, and we'd naturally be a small number anyway. But I'm a bit miffed that my grandfather's efforts galloping around Palestine in the real Light Horse twatting Turks is again reduced to a side conflict in the global scheme of things.

We're serious about our drink, if that helps. Some of us were real soldiers even. In Africa, like. We weren't alway drunks, you know. One of our number even wrote a book. A good one.

Anyway, I'm real grateful to be in Taiwan. :thumbsup:

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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby Mucha Man » 22 May 2011, 15:04

They certainly are not going to be indifferent to any attempt to hoist a loud independent flag in any of these geographies, and it's something I note the Taiwanese have been pragmatically cool in not doing. Even the rhetoric out of the middle of the road members of the DPP has shifted.


Really? I seem to recal that both parties frequently express that Taiwan, or the ROC depending, is a sovereign independent nation. And expect to hear it more and more in the coming months as you can't win an election otherwise.

Regarding China, you're honest enough to recognize that Taiwan is being forced into a position it doesn't want, yet you maintain a strange pretense that it isn't in fact being forced because Beijing is less overtly belligerant than in the past. I can't follow this.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby almas john » 22 May 2011, 16:28

bismarck wrote:
Huang Guang Chen wrote:I guess horses work, because there's not many of them in Taiwan, and we'd naturally be a small number anyway. But I'm a bit miffed that my grandfather's efforts galloping around Palestine in the real Light Horse twatting Turks is again reduced to a side conflict in the global scheme of things.

We're serious about our drink, if that helps. Some of us were real soldiers even. In Africa, like. We weren't alway drunks, you know. One of our number even wrote a book. A good one.

Anyway, I'm real grateful to be in Taiwan. :thumbsup:

Long live the Forumosan Light Horse!


I'll drink to that Bismarck

HGC,
Your rabid Australian nationalistic jingoism had you immediately associate – without a sliver of doubt – the Formosan Light Horse with the heroic Australian Light Horse of the Battle of Beersheba fame. They were full-time soldiers mate, and I was thinking of a reserve force modelled on the Calcutta Light Horse. Perhaps you’ve seen the film “Sea Wolves,” a dramatisation of their attack on a German ship in Goa during WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcutta_Light_Horse
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081470/

I’m also grateful to be in Taiwan, and I’m siding with the Menopausal Metrosexual, I mean Muzha Man on this one.
China should F@#k *\F!

This post was recommended by 2 Forumosans: bismarck (23 May 2011, 00:12), Tomas (22 May 2011, 22:49)
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby Mucha Man » 23 May 2011, 02:27

almas john wrote:...’m siding with the Menopausal Metrosexual, I mean Muzha Man on this one.
China should F@#k *\F!


I appreciate the support even from sheep shaggers.

@Huang

I'm not a China basher as you know. I've travelled enough of the country (and, no, hardly limited to the outer fringes) to be impressed with the transformaton. I have also met enough people to know that the majority support modernization and progress. I support it too, having little affection for dirt, shit, superstition and backwardness.

I agree the modern leadership are, when it comes to economc development, a pragmatic lot, impressively educated and groomed for their positions. Which is not to say they should be let off the hook for robbing millions of their land, polluting the hell out the environment, and jailing those who are not happy when they are poisoned, polluted, and subsequently persecuted for nothing more than being unahppy about being poisoned and polluted.

But regardless of the success within China, foreign policy has to date been nothing more than securing a steady flow of investment and resources solely to benefit China. There is little sign that China is stepping up to play an important roll in world leadership as befitting the size of their economy and their own aspirations.

Nor are they showing the least bit if pragmatism with respect to security and terrtorial issues. Here its xenophobia, authoritarian paranoia, and refusal to comprimise. I mentioned Tibet but what I should have mentioned was the inability of any modern leadership to deal with the Dalai Lama. Here is a man who has accepted Chinese sovereignty but wants greater autonomy as was promised under the 17 point agreement and all domestic laws. Not dealing with the DL was and remains foolish in the extreme. He's the best Beijing could hope for, and dealing with him would have neutralized any independence sentiments. In short, with a rational Tibet there would be no Tibet problem.

Similarly the leadership's inability to deal with Chen shui-bian was foolish and counterprodcutive. Chen was perfectly willing to deal with China and of course under his goverment we got the three mini-links, and scores of formal and informal agreements, to say nothing of greater economic integration., It was under Chen don't forget that China became Taiwan's major trading partner, replacing the US.

Further issues such as the South China Sea claims only argue that the leadership is in fact willing to bring troubles upon itself, and risk damaging the economy for symbolic assertions of territory. In other words, not rational, not pragmatic, but reflexive, defensive, and belligerant. I believe it was Gates, sec of defense, who recently said that China tossed away a decades worth of good will and trust over the past year. So much for the leadership getting smarter and more rational.

In essence I see no contradiction between the Chinese leadership acting pragmatic and rational in domestic economic affairs, and irrational and self-defeating in matters of national security, culture, territorial integrity and the like. This is human nature. I sure you know lots of people who are excellent economist, scientists, accountants, etc, who have the most messed up personal lives. China is the psycho xiaojie who goes to an Ivy League college, gets a job at a top research firm, and then stabs her boyfriend when he decides to break up with her.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby Charlie Phillips » 23 May 2011, 02:40

Ours is not to reason why. Onward, onward.
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby Huang Guang Chen » 23 May 2011, 07:52

Muzha Man wrote:In essence I see no contradiction between the Chinese leadership acting pragmatic and rational in domestic economic affairs, and irrational and self-defeating in matters of national security, culture, territorial integrity and the like. This is human nature. I sure you know lots of people who are excellent economist, scientists, accountants, etc, who have the most messed up personal lives. China is the psycho xiaojie who goes to an Ivy League college, gets a job at a top research firm, and then stabs her boyfriend when he decides to break up with her.

I have to admit, I very much like the analogy!

I agree that the international affairs aspect is lacking the success of the internal economic gains, and especially in relation to their dealing with Chen's DPP leadership, but I think you'll find those days are gone, and not just because of Ma. I expect a very benign response if the DPP win the next elections, as I've said. So I would suggest there has been some shift in relation to Taiwan already, and more is pending, albeit, China simply is, as you say, never going to relinquish it's insistence that Taiwan is a part of China. However, given Taiwan is already independent in everything but its ability to state the bleeding obvious, China's ability to do anything is very limited. I really can't see China using military force on Taiwan ever again, as the consequences will be unacceptable, not least of which for Taiwan, obviously, but also on China's international standing. I think it's a case of living with the status quo until there's leadership on both sides that can knock together a deal that saves faces on both sides of the straits.

As for Tibet, they're never going to budge. The Dalai Lama has officially stepped down, and has been replaced by an elected leader of the government in exile. I imagine that's even less palatable to the Chinese, as suggested by them having pretty much completely ignored any attempts at discussion with the new chap to date. What will be interesting, is the hunt for the next Dalai Lama.
From a recent piece in The Economist. http://www.economist.com/node/18713598? ... 8&fsrc=rss
In 1951 the political system was a feudal theocracy. Now that exiles enjoy the forms of parliamentary democracy, they find China no more trustworthy. China, in turn, finds the exiles’ political system no more appealing.


Have to admit, as to the South China sea islands, I've pretty much ignored all of that as noise. if you look at who claims what in the Spratleys, etc, it's frankly all rather silly.

Oh, and sheep shagger. I stand naked (well, perhaps cloaked in an Australian flag like some dreamy eyed (probably the hash) teenage backpacker at a Gallipoli dawn service) and humbled by your outing of my Aussie nationalistic jingoism, as you call it. I thought I'd shed such beasts a long time ago. Light Horse it is.

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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 23 May 2011, 13:41

Muzha Man wrote:China is the psycho xiaojie who goes to an Ivy League college, gets a job at a top research firm, and then stabs her boyfriend when he decides to break up with her.


Oh shit, so that's why my friend is getting married this year!
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby asiaeast » 20 Sep 2011, 11:07

I really don't get the whole appeal of China. I'm not that biased, at least, I don't think I am. I could live almost anywhere. But why are so many Taiwanese bent on moving to China?

My wife's brother-in-law moved there about three years ago and tells the most awful stories, like not getting paid for two or three months at a time, and how there's still no work there. Yet he won't move back. He's convinced that someday, when it all goes big time, he's going to get rich for being there first. Him and a billion other people. He could easily land a better job and higher quality of life just by moving home to Taiwan again. In fact, his wife is willing to let him lie on the sofa all day and watch TV here in Taiwan, just so long as he stops asking her for money all the time. He's lost more money to the Chinese economy than he would cost if he was useless back here.

Ok, I'm done ranting (for now).
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby Rabidpie » 20 Sep 2011, 11:12

asiaeast wrote:I really don't get the whole appeal of China. I'm not that biased, at least, I don't think I am. I could live almost anywhere. But why are so many Taiwanese bent on moving to China?

My wife's brother-in-law moved there about three years ago and tells the most awful stories, like not getting paid for two or three months at a time, and how there's still no work there. Yet he won't move back. He's convinced that someday, when it all goes big time, he's going to get rich for being there first. Him and a billion other people. He could easily land a better job and higher quality of life just by moving home to Taiwan again. In fact, his wife is willing to let him lie on the sofa all day and watch TV here in Taiwan, just so long as he stops asking her for money all the time. He's lost more money to the Chinese economy than he would cost if he was useless back here.

Ok, I'm done ranting (for now).


That's an interesting viewpoint that I have not encountered frequently. Most Taiwanese I run into are happy to return back to Taiwan after a year or two. Only a very few really enjoy living in the big cities of Shanghai or Beijing. It might have to do because their job gives them a lot of control/power that they otherwise wouldn't have back in Taiwan.
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Re: Be grateful to be in Taiwan

Postby steelersman » 20 Sep 2011, 22:36

asiaeast wrote:I really don't get the whole appeal of China. I'm not that biased, at least, I don't think I am. I could live almost anywhere. But why are so many Taiwanese bent on moving to China?

My wife's brother-in-law moved there about three years ago and tells the most awful stories, like not getting paid for two or three months at a time, and how there's still no work there. Yet he won't move back. He's convinced that someday, when it all goes big time, he's going to get rich for being there first. Him and a billion other people. He could easily land a better job and higher quality of life just by moving home to Taiwan again. In fact, his wife is willing to let him lie on the sofa all day and watch TV here in Taiwan, just so long as he stops asking her for money all the time. He's lost more money to the Chinese economy than he would cost if he was useless back here.

Ok, I'm done ranting (for now).


Where can I find myself a wife like that? One who lends me money. If anyone knows any women like this please have them contact steelersman.
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