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Seediq Bale

This is the place for discussion of films, books, movies and TV shows, etc. A & E topics related to Taiwan or China should be posted in the Culture & History Forum.

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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby hansioux » 17 Oct 2013, 16:13

had no idea You are the Apple of My Eye is the English title for that movie.....
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby tommy525 » 17 Oct 2013, 23:00

Apple was very dry, non captivating for me. I couldn't get into it.

Don't know why it was a big hit even.

Romance? I prefer MUST LOVE DOGS, Sleepless in Seattle , You've Got Mail , etc.

Now a movie like Captain Phillips , you could watch on tv and get into it.

Maybe Asian movies spin stories so slowly, if you are not captive (in a movie house) you may wander off and not pay attention or shut the dvd down.
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby hansioux » 18 Oct 2013, 09:30

tommy525 wrote:Apple was very dry, non captivating for me. I couldn't get into it.


really? the movie started with a musical montage implying the dude was jerking off in class and was asked to stand up to answer the teacher's question.....

but I think that movie applies to people who had experiences in the Taiwanese school system.
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby Icon » 18 Oct 2013, 09:37

hansioux wrote:
tommy525 wrote:Apple was very dry, non captivating for me. I couldn't get into it.


really? the movie started with a musical montage implying the dude was jerking off in class and were asked to stand up to answer the teacher's question.....

but I think that movie applies to people who had experiences in the Taiwanese school system.


Yes, that is why most people like it. Quite nostalgic for them. That is why I thought Tommy would like it. :(

next time we'll send him the Taiwanese zombie movie, see how he likes that!
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby finley » 18 Oct 2013, 10:50

tommy525 wrote:Maybe Asian movies spin stories so slowly, if you are not captive (in a movie house) you may wander off and not pay attention or shut the dvd down.

This could well be it (or at least a big part of it). I hated Seediq Bale. I just couldn't empathize with any of the characters, not even in the way you might empathize with a "complex" character like the protagonist of V for Vendetta. I simply didn't care what happened next. Mostly, though, it just dragged. There was no pacing; it felt like a self-indulgent ramble, a guy down the pub telling a long, meandering, shaggy dog story. OK, maybe life is like that: but it shouldn't be depicted like that on film, not if you want people to say 'what a great film'.
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby Icon » 18 Oct 2013, 11:02

I gather Tsai Ming-liang is not your cup of tea, either?
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby Hokwongwei » 18 Oct 2013, 12:24

Tsai Ming-liang is hard for anyone to watch. But I absolutely loved Seediq Bale. I didn't find it too slow, and don't really agree with any of the criticisms finley has mentioned.

Monga is another recent film I really enjoyed. It also starts off slow, but then again, so do The Hobbit and Star Wars and I like those too.
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby hansioux » 18 Oct 2013, 15:27

I would watch the second part over just for the Temu Walis river fight scene. I thought that whole part is done wonderfully. When the Tgdaya Gungu warrior Pihu Sapu transformed into Mona in Temu's eyes, he stopped fleeing, and just wanted to live by their Gaga.

Here is a man not really willing to fight for either side. His tribesmen wanted to join the attack so they can continue their tradition, but as the leader of Toda Tnbarah village, Temu has no love for the Tgdaya and Mhebu's Mona Rudo. Toda and Tgdaya were once close, but disputes in the 1910s led to tribal warfare. Though at the same time they are still all Seediq. Even at the river fight, many of the Gungu and Tnbarah warriors were cousins. In real history, after the 12 men Tgdaya Gungu ambush forces won the river skirmish, they cried because they would rather fight the Japanese troops. Japanese oppression applied to them all.

As he stood idle the Japanese reinforcement arrived at his village and forced Temu to reluctantly assist the Japanese, as he saw his tribesmen eagerly accepting Japanese gifts when just a few days ago they were demanding to join the ritual killing of the Japanese. When Temu was cornered at the river, he actually wanted to flee. But when he saw Pihu Sapu charging at him, his figure transformed into Mona Rudo in Temu's mind. Mona had killed his family and oppressed Toda people since he was a child. At that moment he has decided he would follow Gaga and fight to the end.

This part echoes Mona's decision process, and portrayed Temu Walis living by the same code as Mona Rudo. It is significant for those who were educated by KMT textbooks on this subject, they would view Temu as a traitor, traditional Chinese description goes as far as calling him "Han Jian," which is funny cause in no way can Temu or Mona be categorized as Chinese ethnically. If you do a google search with Temu Walis' name, you'd see the China's audience still describing Temu as "Han Jian." They even criticize why Temu Walis was on the Hakaw Utux by the end of the movie.

Wei's Seediq Bale wanted to restore every faction back on an even level. There are no mindless savages, mindless oppressors, or mindless traitors. Temu is a victim of traditional tribal rivalry and modern Japanese colonialism. Temu was trying to make the right decision, but there really wasn't a right decision to make, so in the end he chose to die by their Gaga. That's the theme of the movie. And the movie was a redemption of Temu Walis' place in history. At least in Taiwan, after this movie, I believe view would consider Temu as the bad guy.

But I guess that's a lot of background knowledge to be able to appreciate the finer points of the film....
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby Hokwongwei » 18 Oct 2013, 16:50

Honestly I have no idea who most of those people are since I watched it with Chinese subtitles... The Romanizations just don't connect in my brain.
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Re: Seediq Bale

Postby hansioux » 18 Oct 2013, 17:28

Hokwongwei wrote:Honestly I have no idea who most of those people are since I watched it with Chinese subtitles... The Romanizations just don't connect in my brain.


People:
Mona Rudo = 莫那,魯道
Temu Walis = 鐵木,瓦力斯
Pihu Sapu = 比荷,沙波

Ethnic Groups:
Seediq = 賽德克, which in their language means person/people.

Seediq is formed by 3 sub groups, each has a slight variation in their language and customes:
Tgdaya = 德固達雅 (aka 德克達雅)
Toda = 道澤 (this Hanji is selected by the Japanese scholars, present day Toda prefer 都達)
Truku = 德路固 (although this is the same word for Taroko, the same people living in the Taroko area independently requested to be recognized as 太魯閣 (truku) tribe instead of being part of Seediq. Those not living in the Taroko area joined the rest of Seediq people and use a new Hanji name 德路固 instead).

Tgdata villages:
Mhebu = 馬赫坡 (tribe of Mona Rudo)
Gungu = 荷戈 (Hanji characters probably also chosen by the Japanese, tribe of Obin Tadao (aka 高山初子) and her father Tadao Nokan (塔達歐,諾干))

Toda villages:
Tnbarah = 屯巴拉 (tribe of Temu Walis)

Cultural terms:
Gaga = 祖訓, 傳統, 規範.... it is a very complex word
Hakaw Utux = 彩虹橋 Rainbow bridge. Utux = 祖靈 Hakaw = Rainbow.
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