Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 11 Jul 2012, 20:50

Fred, as I have already said, I think Moore is making a contribution to our overall knowldege. The greenies need to be challenged. I never said his views should never be accepted.

But there is no evidence or compelling argument of communism being the source of environmentalism given by Moore or yourself.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby E04teacherlin » 12 Jul 2012, 02:15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbo ... 400kyr.png

http://greenphysicist2.blogspot.tw/2010 ... evels.html

This fear mongering has to stop. We don't even need to learn English. The whole world will be speaking Chinese in the next few years (excluding those who have been living in Taiwan for 20 years)
And the planet will be save and China will have all the bucks.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby fred smith » 12 Jul 2012, 11:19

Fred, as I have already said, I think Moore is making a contribution to our overall knowldege. The greenies need to be challenged. I never said his views should never be accepted.


DAMN. FOILED... I really wanted you to be hypocritical here and curse him to the high heavens. I had already prepared all my links for all the corporate assistance and involvement... grrrr.... you have ruined my happy moment and avoided my clever trap... damn. curses. damn. Damn. HELL.

But there is no evidence or compelling argument of communism being the source of environmentalism given by Moore or yourself.


Will look for some more. How about we look at it this way. Many disgruntled types in the West gravitated toward communism before the wall fell. Now that there is no communism to gravitate to, many find common cause and purpose in environmental movements. Will have to spend some time to search up some more motivation stuff but I think that we can agree on the above, no?

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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 12 Jul 2012, 22:36

fred smith wrote:Will look for some more. How about we look at it this way. Many disgruntled types in the West gravitated toward communism before the wall fell. Now that there is no communism to gravitate to, many find common cause and purpose in environmental movements. Will have to spend some time to search up some more motivation stuff but I think that we can agree on the above, no?
Fred


Tired and busy now so will get back to you in a few days.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 13 Jul 2012, 13:49

fred smith wrote:Many disgruntled types in the West gravitated toward communism before the wall fell. Now that there is no communism to gravitate to, many find common cause and purpose in environmental movements. Will have to spend some time to search up some more motivation stuff but I think that we can agree on the above, no?


They weren't real communicsts, they were only disgruntled?

Are there are numerical sources that tak about a increase in greenies and a decrease in commies happening in the same time frame?

What is the common cause and purpose supposedly shared between greens and coms?

What about the diversity of the green movement? Are you saying it is all a commie plot or that some parts were affected by these supposedly disgruntled twice commies?

Do you have any biographical sources "how I went from commie to greenie", sociology papers "the transformation of the NGO movement from red to green" or journalistic articles that quote sources from inside these movements rather than just their detractors?
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby johnny138 » 14 Jul 2012, 10:29

Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ds-newsxml

How did the Romans grow grapes in northern England? Perhaps because it was warmer than we thought.

A study suggests the Britain of 2,000 years ago experienced a lengthy period of hotter summers than today.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.

This cooling was punctuated by a couple of warm spells....

The finding may force scientists to rethink current theories of the impact of global warming

Professor Esper's group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC.

In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.

...Professor Esper said: 'Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today's climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods.’


I know liberals love to totally discount things they simply don't like by criticzing the source so here's a slightly more academic reference:
Climate in northern Europe reconstructed for the past 2,000 years: Cooling trend calculated precisely for the first time
http://www.uni-mainz.de/eng/15491.php

In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form. For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

"This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant," says Esper. "However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia."


So there's something else inconvenient to ignore, just like everything else liberals don't like. Please feel free to not discuss this just like you don't discuss anything else that shows your position to be the absolute fraud that it is.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby cfimages » 14 Jul 2012, 10:43

johnny138 wrote:Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ds-newsxml

How did the Romans grow grapes in northern England? Perhaps because it was warmer than we thought.

A study suggests the Britain of 2,000 years ago experienced a lengthy period of hotter summers than today.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.

This cooling was punctuated by a couple of warm spells....

The finding may force scientists to rethink current theories of the impact of global warming

Professor Esper's group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC.

In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.

...Professor Esper said: 'Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today's climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods.’


I know liberals love to totally discount things they simply don't like by criticzing the source so here's a slightly more academic reference:
Climate in northern Europe reconstructed for the past 2,000 years: Cooling trend calculated precisely for the first time
http://www.uni-mainz.de/eng/15491.php

In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form. For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

"This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant," says Esper. "However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia."


So there's something else inconvenient to ignore, just like everything else liberals don't like. Please feel free to not discuss this just like you don't discuss anything else that shows your position to be the absolute fraud that it is.


Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase in your own quote. Here it is.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby johnny138 » 14 Jul 2012, 10:50

cfimages wrote:Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase in your own quote. Here it is.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.


Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase too:
"This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant," says Esper. "However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia."


Nice try. No dice.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby cfimages » 14 Jul 2012, 10:58

johnny138 wrote:
cfimages wrote:Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase in your own quote. Here it is.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.


Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase too:
"This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant," says Esper. "However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia."


Nice try. No dice.


There's no real expectation of global warming up to now. It's always been what will occur over the next century. In fact, the warming that we've seen so far that they reference caused surprise when it was first observed because no one expected we'd see any until around 2025 at the earliest. If anything, their mention of it just bolsters the evidence for AGW.
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Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 14 Jul 2012, 13:02

johnny138 wrote:I know liberals love to totally discount things they simply don't like


Hasn't this been politicized enough? This is not really about left or right wing; it's about science and what actually happens.
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