2011 London Riots - London's Burning

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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby Jaboney » 17 Aug 2011, 12:34

Tempo Gain wrote:Everyone arrested would get their say in court.

Not good enough; too easily abused.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby Petrichor » 17 Aug 2011, 12:45

The rioting ended several days ago, without recourse to water cannon, plastic bullets, or bringing in the army (thinking of the Ohio incident). Thank goodness. I don't think at any point the police were criticsed for not being tough enough, though they were criticised for not responding, or simply not being present, which was probably due to lack of numbers in the initial stages.

I think that saying a strong response is needed to stop the rioting and that people need to be aware of the criminality of their actions is rather stating the obvious. Talk of arming the populace or some of the other wilder suggestions was quite alarming, though, and, as it has turned out, unnecessary.

Currently the news is all about what's happening in the magistrate courts. They're giving out disparate sentences for the same crimes and saying they haven't been given any guidelines on how to sentence. This indicates to me they think they should be sentencing people differently because they took part in the riots.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby tomthorne » 17 Aug 2011, 12:46

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/1 ... men-jailed

Be very careful about drunken posts online. 4 years! :eek:
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby Tempo Gain » 17 Aug 2011, 12:48

Jaboney wrote:
Tempo Gain wrote:Everyone arrested would get their say in court.

Not good enough; too easily abused.


In the entire course of Western history, no one has come up with anything better. It'll have to do.

Petrichor wrote:This indicates to me they think they should be sentencing people differently because they took part in the riots.


Normally legal systems give sentencing ranges which depend on various factors.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby tomthorne » 17 Aug 2011, 13:10

Isn't this just going to result in loads of appeals? Normal sentencing guidelines are openly being ignored which feels to me like the making of a real mess. The guys getting sent down will appeal with legal aid and the taxpayer will end up paying for it. Defence lawyers will do very nicely. Damn lawyers - they always end up rolling in it :) .

It's all gone a bit mental back in the UK. I think that the guys at the top need to take a breather and think things through a bit more. Setting examples is important, but we're tied by EU laws now.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby sandman » 17 Aug 2011, 13:15

Isn't this just going to result in loads of appeals? Normal sentencing guidelines are openly being ignored which feels to me like the making of a real mess. The guys getting sent down will appeal with legal aid and the taxpayer will end up paying for it. Defence lawyers will do very nicely.

Already happening, apparently. A total clusterfuck. Cameron's spin doctors will be doing a LOT of overtime over the next few months.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby Petrichor » 17 Aug 2011, 13:43

Tempo Gain wrote:
Jaboney wrote:
Tempo Gain wrote:Everyone arrested would get their say in court.

Not good enough; too easily abused.


In the entire course of Western history, no one has come up with anything better. It'll have to do.

Petrichor wrote:This indicates to me they think they should be sentencing people differently because they took part in the riots.


Normally legal systems give sentencing ranges which depend on various factors.


The magistrates a well aware of the sentencing ranges, or at least they should be. They seem to think that rioters are a special case.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby Tempo Gain » 17 Aug 2011, 13:46

If they're going outside legally mandated ranges, that's stupid.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby sandman » 17 Aug 2011, 13:49

Yup. Most of these people are living on state handouts and they know VERY well INDEED how to milk the system. Cameron and his merry band seem to be under the impression that there'll be a lot of forelock-tugging and "if it please m'lud" when in actual fact there will whole armies rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of appeals and most probably, compensation.
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Re: 2011 London Riots - London's Burning

Postby Mick » 18 Aug 2011, 10:28

Seems Charles and Camilla seemed fit to grace Hackney with their presence. The riots, said the prince, had been truly horrible and that "Half the problem is that people join gangs because it's a cry for help and they're looking for a sense of belonging."

This article Opinion: Our flawed drug laws are at heart of riots would suggest it is less about a cry for help, but kids the age of 12 or 13 who got £30 a day paid for delivering drugs. I am inclined to go with the later rather than the insight from Prince Charles, despite him being in touch with the housing estate crowd as he is.

Well, full marks to the royal couple for making the effort, even if it was in their usual clumsy style.

Outside, the prince spoke to Dymond Allen, a resident. "He asked if my house had been affected and if I was a rapper. I said, 'no, I'm a youth worker,' and he said 'thank God for people like you.'"
Could have been worse, could have asked if he was a gang banger or something.
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