Post Gadaffi Libya - What Now?

[jdsmith]

Libya militias, army torturing detainees...

Eh? Plus ça change?

Libya's regular army and array of militias have been torturing loyalists of slain dictator Moamer Kadhafi, several of whom have been killed in custody, human rights groups charged on Thursday. Amnesty International said that despite promises, Libya's new rulers have made "no progress to stop the use of torture", as Doctors Without Borders suspended its work in the third-largest city Misrata over similar claims.

We helped topple Gaddafi for this?

Our role is to provide medical care to war casualties and sick detainees, not to repeatedly treat the same patients between torture sessions.

This is why New War doesn't work. It simply invites chaos. It's ALMOST stupid to say it invites chaos at no cost to the far superior military powers.

OT: I heard that Iraq was getting more dictatorial again...if it's true, thank god.

[Tigerman]

The torture is being carried out by officially recognised military and security entities as well as by a multitude of armed militias operating outside any legal framework... There's torture, extrajudicial executions, rape of both men and women


Well, its a good thing this torture isn't being carried out by US soldiers/CIA at Gitmo. Because, that would be really bad!

[TainanCowboy]

The torture is being carried out by officially recognised military and security entities as well as by a multitude of armed militias operating outside any legal framework... There's torture, extrajudicial executions, rape of both men and women


Well, its a good thing this torture isn't being carried out by US soldiers/CIA at Gitmo. Because, that would be really bad!

Send in the UN Peace keepers....that'll teach them to behave themselves!...

[ChewDawg]

Why am I not surprised? Canadian expats behaving badly yet again! Trying to rescue a Gaddafi?

Cynthia Vanier, a Canadian being held in Mexico since last fall over an alleged plot to smuggle one of Moammar Gadhafi’s sons, is now formally facing charges.

Mexican officials have issued warrants for five people for attempted trafficking of undocumented people and organized crime, the Mexican attorney-general said in a statement on Wednesday.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le2322617/

[Tigerman]

This from the New York Times:

Libya Struggles to Curb Militias as Chaos Grows

Chaos grows?

Where is the international community lending a hand?

[Tigerman]

Why Libya Is Becoming More Dangerous After Gaddafi's Fall

Say What!??? How can this be?

...dozens of well-armed militia groups operating across the vast country have slipped well out of the control of the nascent government in Tripoli, making the country ever more fractured as well as dangerous to ordinary Libyans attempting to adjust to the end of Muammar Gaddafi's 41-year dictatorship.

One militia controls the airport. Others carve up neighborhoods of the Libyan capital into fiefdoms. They clash in the streets, terrifying residents. They hold detainees in makeshift prisons where torture is said to be rampant.

I thought they were all united, like, and revolutionizing for a shared purpose?

Libya has been flipped upside down, from a country where all power was in the hands of one man, Gadhafi, to one where it has been broken up into hundreds of different hands, each taking its own decisions.

In a chilling 38-page report published on the eve of the anniversary, Amnesty International describes a wave of terror and widespread abuse by militia groups, whose members in recent months have dragged hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Libyans from their homes or from roadside checkpoints into makeshift jails on suspicion of being Gaddafi sympathizers or having fought alongside the regime's forces during the civil war.

Yikes!

...militia groups... have now settled into semi-permanent power arrangements in areas across the country, with no signs of disarming.

The AI report outlines the grim detentions in fairly close detail, adding to mounting evidence of abuse. In December, the International Committee of the Red Cross said it had visited about 8,500 prisoners in 60 detention facilities over the previous year. And in late January, Doctors Without Borders shut its clinic in Misratah after its staff treated 14 torture victims who had been taken to an interrogation center nearby.

Mass detentions? Torture?

Finance Minister Hassan Zaklam admitted that millions of dollars from Gadhafi family assets returned to Libya by European countries — a potentially key source of revenue — have flowed right back out of Libya, stolen by corrupt officials and smuggled out in suitcases through the ports.

Its a good thing we got rid of Gadaffi, isn't it!

[Jaboney]

It gives me the giggles that you supported the war on Saddam but continue to pose as though this gets your knickers in a knot.

[Tigerman]

It gives me the giggles that you supported the war on Saddam but continue to pose as though this gets your knickers in a knot.

Why?

You know the reason I am posting this. No contradiction on my part.

Didn't you complain about the mess the invasion of Iraq made in Iraq?

[Jaboney]

Didn't you complain about the mess the invasion of Iraq made in Iraq?

Certainly. The invasion of Iraq made a mess of Iraq. Providing air support (and weapons and intel) to the right side ensured that a pre-existing mess in Libya was resolved in the least bad available manner.

Origins, costs and consequences all radically different.

[Tigerman]

The invasion of Iraq made a mess of Iraq.

I'm sorry, but, that's just complete . Iraq was already a big mess long before the invasion.

Providing air support (and weapons and intel) to the right side...

The Islamist militia rebel groups? They're the right side? Based on what criteria? The militias are detaining, torturing, killing people left and right. Libya is a smoldering mess, NOW. There was no real reason to assist the rebel militias in a civil war in Libya. We didn't make anything better there.

...ensured that a pre-existing mess in Libya...

What pre-existing mess?

...was resolved in the least bad available manner.

So, if we assist in fanning the flames of a civil war and then pick a side to help, and then the country goes into the shitter, that's a least bad available manner? What action did you counsel for Iraq?

Origins, costs and consequences all radically different.

Indeed...