The problem with South Africa

[headhonchoII]

Should this thread title be "insert whatever hodge podge pet theory that does not have the barest connection with the original thread title" ?

There's no black race or white race anyway if you actually stop to think for a second. I fail to see the connection between a Zulu, Nigerian, Jamaican or Tanzanian and even within those definitions you have massive difference in tribal behavior, class and societal values.

Each country and society should be judged on it's own merits and blame culture does nothing to advance any society. Fix the problems of the present not the past.

[Zla'od]

That's so true. Did you know that humans share 95 % of our DNA with chimpanzees? I mean, here we are throwing around loaded terms like "human" and "chimpanzee," but when you get right down to it, NEITHER OF OUR SPECIES REALLY EXISTS !!! Same with race. So it's high time that we dismantle the bars that irrationally separate us from our brothers.

[urodacus]

We have about 75% similarity to sea squirts, and about 50% similarity to bananas too. So let's celebrate ALL life, even that from New Zealand, and just forget about South Africa.

[Confuzius]

Time to get hammered for sounding like a racist....

Race has nothing to do with anything.

Culture has everything to do with everything.

You cannot blame oppression for the lack of family structure, education and acheivement.

Want proof? Look at the Jews...had it JUST as bad (perhaps worse?) than anyone and for a MUCH longer period of time (lets say at least 1500 years of oppression).

So why have the Jews (just one example, think of others if you like) been able to thrive, maintain a healthy family structure, sense of education and civilization?

Their culture. Even in the ghettos of Eastern Europe, midst pogroms, or during the Crusades midst slaughter, rape, kidnapping etc, even after (and DURING) the Holocaust (throw in countless other intensely difficult times of oppression) they had an advanced culture unique unto themselves. They had an educational and pedagogical system which they (created?) used since before the Roman conquest. They had their own language, religion, ideology, etc.

Unfortunately, most native peoples (those from Africa, the New World etc) had none of this. Many had not invented an alphabet! Most lived in small tribal communities which were at constant war with other tribal communities.

So when you take a group of people away from a tribal community, that has no writing system, no clear distinct self identity, none of the strong marks of culture, beat them down and oppress them, they have nothing to cling to in order to combat said oppression.

I think much of the "ethnic disparity" you see in South Africa and the United States is due to this. Unfortunately, these tribal cultures had simply not been advanced enough, culturally, to be able to withstand the horrors that they went through.

[thrilla]

^ Truer words have never been spoken. The culture in general is one which does not lend itself to integration into the global community. For instance polygamy is accepted and in the Xhosa tribe it isn't even frowned upon to force yourself upon a woman. Add to this the 'lobolo' system where women are bought for cattle and we have a very backward system and one in which it isn't surprising that woman are treated poorly.

Then there is the fact that when the Dutch arrived in 1652, there was not even a codified legal system. This problem still exists today as we try to incorporate the indigenous uncodified law into the law as it stands which basically mimics all other developed nations. Think of a case where dissolution of marriage occurs and the redistribution of assets where a polygamous marriage was entered into. All this does not bode well for the family unit and where we are well aware of the negatives that would flow from this.

African leadership is one which lacks empathy and an insight into the inter-connectedness of everyone. Look at Zimbabwe. Yes, serve our ego by taking the farms from the white man and ultimately leaving everyone in the country in a far worse predicament. Look north to see dictators who use wealth not for the betterment of society, but for their own personal egoistic gain.

Culture is your operating system. This is not a race issue.

[BigJohn]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Interesting point. But do we take this discussion back to the thread title or split it off to form another thread?

[Belgian Pie]

South Africa is still ... Africa!

[BigJohn]

South Africa is still ... Africa!

Ah, so are you saying that that is its problem?

[Mother Theresa]

I don't know what the problem is, but there's clearly a problem.

The government shoots into a crowd of protesting miners, killing 34. . .

and NOW they have the audacity to arrest 270 of the miners and charge them with murder???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19424484





Lovely.