Durban Climate Change Conference

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IP is the place for boisterous political discussion, but please remember, the Rules still apply, especially with regards to Personal Attacks. These and other inappropriate posts will be removed without notification.

Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby Gao Bohan » 19 Dec 2011, 23:37

fred smith wrote:Also, IF global temperatures are warming, how much is the result of manmade actions? can you fix a percentage on that beyond "likely" with a concensus level of 45%.


And there again is the multi-pronged attack. I've heard various statements from you and other denialists over the years, so forgive me if I'm unclear where you presently stand. I'll try to summarize the various position statements for your benefit.

1. Global warming is not happening.
2. Global warming is happening, but it's not the result of man.
3. Global warming is happening, but it's only partially the result of man.
4. Global warming is happening, and it is primarily the result of man, but we can't do anything about it.
5. Global warming is happening, and it's unclear who is at fault, but in any case, we can't do anything about it.
6. Global warming is happening, and it doesn't matter who is at fault, because it will benefit more people than it will harm.

Is one of those position statements your own? Or all of them? Some of them? None of them? Or maybe it depends on where you’re placing the goal posts for any particular day?

I can articulate my position very clearly.


Well, now's your chance. :)

I suggest to you that more bran needs to be included in your breakfast because either you are serious constipated or you woke up on the wrong side of bed today.


Thanks for the input on suggested input for more output. But just for shits and giggles, let’s see you clearly articulate your position. On global warming, that is.
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby fred smith » 07 Feb 2012, 07:29

Sorry missed this. My stance is that global warming is occurring and that it is mostly natural. Man is responsible for around 15% maybe of this. I am more fearful of a cooling world so I am not unduly stressed about this. I believe that people like Gore have been quick to see the money to be made and are cashing in. Hey, good for him but it does not mean that I have to run to give him my money or see my taxes or fuel bill rise to ensure that he can buy another mansion. As to what we can do... apparently we cannot do a lot. We can invest in green energy... but we will do that anyway... we can speed up research... good idea but wind? a lot of hot air... and as to nuclear... oh the irony... and as to all the world conferences... useless.... so for me the issue of global warming and the political aspect of it is oh gosh so strangely similar to communism. Coincidence that with the fall of the Soviet Union and the embarrassing discomfiture of the former reds we now have the greens rising with exactly the same redistributive policies and the same sins of wealth and development to reward need over ability? Is this clear enough for you?
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby Mick » 07 Feb 2012, 10:41

fred smith wrote:My stance is that global warming is occurring and that it is mostly natural. Man is responsible for around 15% maybe of this


Honestly, I don't know whats worse, hearing this garbage straight from you, or getting something you said parroted by some moron who demonstrates the Dunning–Kruger effect and thinks they are actually making an intelligent point.

Here's how things work in the real world and if you get the feeling I'm talking down to you, its because I am. Every day I draw electronic circuits, I use models to examine what the output of the circuity will do, and when I finally put the thing together, you know what? It does exactly what the theory, the calculations and models predicted it would do. Its also doesn't rely on exact calculations, components have 1% o 5% or more tolerances, the real world is not perfect, yet you still get to play with your lovely toys like laptops and smartphones where you can share your ignorance on how only if something is 100% known could it work or be accurate in the real world. Oh the irony.

Global warming is no different, perhaps the predictions of additional forcings will need revision, but I get the feeling what we are going to see is going to be very closely correlated to what has been forecast, indeed, what we have already seen is much in line with what is predicted. Which means this is not some imaginary problem, for hundreds of millions who will experience drought, flooding and other extreme weather, this will be a problem.
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby fred smith » 07 Feb 2012, 14:34

Bullshit models? Yeah. There's a real record of success and accuracy but you work with circuits so you must understand the climate just like economists...oh wait! Right.....
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby fred smith » 28 Feb 2012, 09:57

Funny in all this chatter about global warming and climate change, the Durban conference has gone relatively ignored. WHY is that? WHY? And like the other brilliant social movement that was endlessly discussed prior to our forcing a definition of the motivations of the protesters out of the posters... which also ended up in a very eerie silence... Admit it. These movements are both full of politicized machinations and bullshit actors. OR tell us how Durban was a success and what such meetings are going to do for the "climate."
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby Mick » 28 Feb 2012, 10:22

fred smith wrote:Admit it. These movements are both full of politicized machinations and bullshit actors. OR tell us how Durban was a success and what such meetings are going to do for the "climate."


I don't think anything positive came out of the Durban conference. Your right also about the "politicized machinations and bullshit actors" on the one hand you had countries like India wanting everything and giving nothing, Canada pulled out of its obligations under Kyoto, actually under the circumstances I don't think I'd blame them, it was the right decision for them.

However your position on the global warming debate is irrational. It all relies on the fact that its not happening or will not be bad or may be good. All other conclusions you make are based on this premise, and to do that you need to reject the vast body of evidence that suggests otherwise.
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby fred smith » 28 Feb 2012, 10:29

I don't think anything positive came out of the Durban conference.


I was hoping for one denial from someone. THAT would have been supremely amusing. SUPREMELY.

Your right also about the "politicized machinations and bullshit actors"


Yes, I am right.

on the one hand you had countries like India wanting everything and giving nothing,


Must have learned that from the EU and the 1990s baseline that was used to give nations like Germany a free ride. Closing down the inefficient East German plants was hardly a sacrifice for Germany but... look at how it benefited... almost as much as France from the common agricultural policy, eh?

Canada pulled out of its obligations under Kyoto, actually under the circumstances I don't think I'd blame them, it was the right decision for them.


Maybe not believing in global warming is the right decision for me. You seem awfully forgiving today of "selfish" and perhaps even "sensible" actions. Why not keep the party going?

However your position on the global warming debate is irrational. It all relies on the fact that its not happening or will not be bad or may be good. All other conclusions you make are based on this premise, and to do that you need to reject the vast body of evidence that suggests otherwise.


Seems to me that you had best spend less time trying to convince the Fred Smiths of the world of the dire need to act to stave off disaster. You may wish to write to every other world government excepting those in the EU to act and ACT now before it is too late. In the meantime, im going to leave all of my appliances on and turn up the air conditioner to full blast, leave the house, drive around in circles and drink imported mineral water out of a GLASS bottle in solidarity with the nations like Canada, India, Japan, Russia, Brazil, the US, South Africa and many others who just don't give a shit but who you have graciously allowed to "make the decision that is right for them." Thank you! And Good day!
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby sulavaca » 28 Feb 2012, 16:54

Wow. It's been a while since I was in here. I didn't know that global warming was still part of modern discussion. :wink:

So have people in suits figured out how to make people live forever, for a small tax yet, or what?

I noticed this picture on the internet the other day

Image

and it almost made me want to turn off my laptop for fear of adding to my carbon footprint, but then I slapped myself around the head a few times and I was fine again after that.
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby Charlie Phillips » 28 Feb 2012, 18:01

sulavaca wrote:Wow. It's been a while since I was in here. I didn't know that global warming was still part of modern discussion. :wink:

So have people in suits figured out how to make people live forever, for a small tax yet, or what?

I noticed this picture on the internet the other day

Image

and it almost made me want to turn off my laptop for fear of adding to my carbon footprint, but then I slapped myself around the head a few times and I was fine again after that.


Waaaaahhhhh. Hao ke Ai Laaaaaaa. Makes me want to stop breathing, eating, riding my scooter just to save this cuteness from inevitable death.
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Re: Durban Climate Change Conference

Postby finley » 28 Feb 2012, 18:06

So have people in suits figured out how to make people live forever, for a small tax yet, or what?

They did, about 20 years ago and counting, but the fred smiths of this world aren't having any truck with that new-fangled stuff. If gas mantles and horseless carriages were good enough for granddad, they're good enough for us - and if the cute ickle baby polar bears have to die, well, so be it.
"Global warming is happening and we KNOW that man is 100 percent responsible!!!"
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