The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby fred smith » 19 May 2012, 08:56

I wouldn't know, laws aren't my thing.


Apparently not.

Laws have very little to do with morality, common sense and decency.


They should. Rather than focus on this one case, why not re-examine the whole war on drugs that puts so many more people away particularly young Black American males? Isn't it time that we ended the 40 year waste of resources that has led to such violence and has generated billions for drug cartels that is now destabilizing the entire Latin American region whether juges, police, government officials or border and customs agents? all while sending millions of young Black Americans to prisons where they face even more violence while leads to them becoming even less employable or amenable to socialization when they get out? Talk about brutalization.

I do seem to remember you posting something that sure looked like it would cover it. Martin obviously felt scared and feared bodily harm or worse, as would anyone else in the same situation. A man has a right to defend himself and when running away doesn't stop the guy from following him it's quite clear that it's time to go on the offensive.


Or run...

If you have any doubts about this feel free to profile random "suspicious" males at night, follow them, and then when they run to get away from you, continue following. See what happens and report back to us, but be a man leave your gun at home. I guarantee you that most everyone will feel that their life is in danger and the smart ones will go on the offensive once they realize that running away will not work. A few will just get pissed off and drop you immediately without running away. Zimmerman lost any right to claim self defense when he profiled and followed Martin, then continued to follow even though Martin tried to run away. Following someone that is running away from you and self defense don't go together. If he wanted to protect himself, then he would have just stayed in his truck and drove away.


Question: was it not reported that eight or nine previous robberies involved young Black males suspects? in this situation, is it still wrong to profile? I think that this profiling debate has gotten out of question. As I age, I would like to throw this whole argument back at my insurance company which insists on higher premiums if I smoke, get older, don't exercise, weigh a certain amount or live in certain districts. Ditto for auto insurance though for younger Americans in cities with records of speeding and drunk driving... Hello? Isn't this profiling too? Where does one draw the line?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Homey » 19 May 2012, 11:28

Nice post Fred. 100% agreed.

Yes, I think anyone would have profiled young black males if they were in his same situation. The difference is that very very few people decide that they are the local sheriff, judge,jury,executioner and take the matter into their own hands. Reading the history in this story shows that this wasn't the first time. Even the 911 transcription confirm this with the comment about these @#$#@ always get away. I have compassion for Zimmerman's frustration and inability to stop crime in his area. He seems to have good intentions, but a lack of common sense and morality when it comes to carrying and using a firearm. Taking someones life IS a big deal, as is carrying a loaded firearm.

So many laws are just plain wrong and cause much more suffering and problems. I have little respect for people who defend and uphold these laws without actually stopping to see if they are helpful or harmful. The true patriots are the people who don't fear speaking out against things like you have mentioned, not the ones who blindly follow them. Unfortunately the ones who dare speak out will always be labeled the troublemakers, while the obedient sheep show support and maintain these corrupt systems.

Profiling is unavoidable in today's world. Like I stated earlier, we all do it unconsciously (except for JD) whether we want to or not. It's part of how our brain organizes information about the world. It absolutely has a purpose and role in survival. It's the actions we take and the common sense in relation to this information that matters. In society, it's obviously perfectly LEGAL for insurance companies, search engines/social networks, credit agencies, employers, schools, and others to profile and use this information in questionable ways. Laws are far from perfect and in many cases are designed to profit the corporations and institutions with the powerful lobbyists.
Why not???

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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Dr. McCoy » 19 May 2012, 11:32

With great firepower comes great responsibility.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Tigerman » 20 May 2012, 04:55

Homey wrote:A man has a right to defend himself and when running away doesn't stop the guy from following him it's quite clear that it's time to go on the offensive.


TM could easily have gone to his father's house.

Homey wrote:I guarantee you that most everyone will feel that their life is in danger and the smart ones will go on the offensive once they realize that running away will not work.


In this case, I think running away would have worked better for TM.

Homey wrote:Zimmerman lost any right to claim self defense when he profiled and followed Martin, then continued to follow even though Martin tried to run away.


1. You're citing what law?

2. You're just making stuff (facts) up here. Why do you hate GZ so much that you are willing to make up facts to burn him?

Homey wrote:Following someone that is running away from you and self defense don't go together.


Actually, following someone, even instigating an alteration with someone, does not necessarily disqualify one from claiming the right of self defense. I've already cited that law at least twice in this thread. Obviously, you're either not reading the relevant law or you don't care what the law stipulates.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Formosa Fitness » 21 May 2012, 20:07

When Slate takes a non-far left position, you know something is up:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ager_.html

Punched to Death
How easy is it to kill a man with your bare hands?

A lab report released Thursday showed that Trayvon Martin was shot from close range, probably with the gun pressed against his chest. The new information may bolster George Zimmerman's argument that the two men were locked in combat, and Zimmerman shot the unarmed teenager to protect his own life. How easy is it to kill a man in a fistfight?

It happens more than twice a day, on average. Fists and feet were responsible for 745 murders in 2010, or 5.7 percent of all murders that year, according to FBI statistics. (The data on this have been remarkably stable in recent years. In the five preceding years, the percentage of murders perpetrated by fists or feet fluctuated between 5.6 and 6.1.) It doesn’t even take an experienced brawler to punch someone to death: An 11-year-old California girl appears to have killed a classmate with her bare hands in a February fistfight.


It looks like this is becoming clearer and clearer and they're preparing people for the inevitable not guilty verdict.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Mick » 25 May 2012, 10:55

I thought this update was interesting. Update #26 Part 2 – Trayvon Martin Shooting – A year of drug use culminates in predictable violence…

Seems Trayvon had a predilection for a home made drug called "lean" which has been compared to PCP and can cause psychotic breaks also known as DXM, what ingredients are needed?

Arizona Watermelon Juice purchased from 7-11 included in the Crime Scene Photographs and incorrectly listed/discussed as “Tea” by Benjamin Crump, the media, and even police reporting authorities.


As well as a few jolly ranchers and/or skittles thrown in to mix with Robitussin to give you your watermelon lean. It also seems this would not have been something they would have initially tested for, but the article suggests the autopsy indicates long term abuse consistent with its use, and I'm sure they will go back and test for it now they know.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Tigerman » 25 May 2012, 12:09

Wow! Thanks for that, Mick. I'd never heard of that... amazing. Supports my theory that TM reacted aggressively to GZ's watch.

I saw on some other blog recently, a comment something like this: GZ has recently been evolving into a decent guy. Wonder if Joe Biden will state the same and pressure Obama into agreeing?

Odd, isn't it, that the MSM only recently picked up on the news that GZ previously advocated for the rights of a homeless black man who was beaten by the son of a Sanford police chief. I posted about that incident months ago, so, the info was obviously known. Yet, the MSM (as well as many people, including some posters here) have been hell-bent on portraying GZ as some sort of race-profiler. Heck, GZ has evolved in the MSM from being white to white hispanic to multi-racial (being 0.25 (or less) black).
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Dr. McCoy » 25 May 2012, 18:39

When in Doubt, Smear the Dead Kid
This article is a few months old, but I still don't know why the rightwing has such a hardon for Zimmerman. (And not anybody on this site has the afore mentioned hardon. And there's nothing wrong with it.)
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Mick » 25 May 2012, 21:38

Dr. McCoy wrote:When in Doubt, Smear the Dead Kid
This article is a few months old, but I still don't know why the rightwing has such a hardon for Zimmerman. (And not anybody on this site has the afore mentioned hardon. And there's nothing wrong with it.)


Would you rather stick with the cute angelic picture of Trayvon, only 140 lbs, set upon by the white 250 pound racist neighbor hood watch villain, beating and then shooting a screaming Trayvon and then let go by the racist police?

Because that was what was sold to the media, and when the left wing picked it up and fanned the flames of racial hatred, to the point where we have already had reprisal attacks, and possibly riots in the future if Zimmerman is not guilty.

The right wing never bought into the narrative from the beginning, and as more facts emerged, they painted a very different story to that pushed initially, they will not let those who started this media circus off without being held to account.

I saw this in the news today.

A D.C. elementary school has declared Friday “Trayvon Martin Day.”

Teachers at Malcolm X Elementary in southeast are using the unfolding case to teach children about social injustice and race relations in the U.S.
Trayvon Martin Day declared at D.C. elementary school

Who made this case about race? Who started to describe a Hispanic as a white to inflame racial tensions? Who made false claims on the news and edit recording to make Zimmerman look racist and if Trayvon was beating on Zimmerman MMA style, which the marks on his knuckles and marks on Zimmermans face seem to strongly suggest is what was happening, we get "smear the dead kid" accusations. Please.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Dr. McCoy » 25 May 2012, 21:55

Not me.

Zimmerman killed a person who was not breaking any laws. He could have called the police and then went away, but he didn't.
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