The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Mick » 25 May 2012, 22:53

Dr. McCoy wrote:Not me.

Zimmerman killed a person who was not breaking any laws. He could have called the police and then went away, but he didn't.


I know not you Doc. You seemed to be asking why not just leave Zimmerman to the wolves. You also asked about why the political divide, I think some, names like Al Sharpton had alarm bells ringing early.

More facts may come out in the trial, but the counter picture to the initial portrayal of Trayvon is a long term user of PCP type drugs, expelled from 2 schools currently under a 10 day suspension from another, admirer of fight club videos on youtube, on top of Zimmerman beating him quite severely.

In that moment of getting his face smashed in, and I don't know if you agree with US laws on guns or what not, Trayvon was not some innocent kid with skittles in his pocket. He was on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him. At least if you come to that conclusion with the facts we have.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Dr. McCoy » 25 May 2012, 23:05

He's not being left to wolves. He will get a trial. Which is more than Trayvon Martin got. None of those things you mentioned warrant a death penalty, in my opinion.
The investigator who called for Zimmerman's arrest, Christopher Serino, told prosecutors that the fight could have been avoided if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement. He said Zimmerman, after leaving his vehicle, could have identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and talked to him instead of confronting him. The report was written on March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman's eventual arrest.
He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiancee in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Mick » 25 May 2012, 23:24

Dr. McCoy wrote:He will get a trial.


Unless its throw out even before that.

But please, if all evidence is showing Trayvon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman at the time he got shot, what law has Zimmerman broken?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby flike » 26 May 2012, 09:04

Dr. McCoy wrote:Zimmerman killed a person who was not breaking any laws.

I get your gist, but it's worth noting that Zimmerman killed a person who wasn't breaking any laws UNTIL (putatively) he began the beatdown that cost him his life (right or wrong; the American justice of which is to be determined by trial ultimately). The idea that Martin could turn on a dime from law abider to lawbreaker is at the heart of this whole thing.

Dr. McCoy wrote:He could have called the police and then went away, but he didn't.

The problem with this statement is that it presupposes Trayvon's death. I mean, yeah, given that Trayvon died it would have been best for Zimmerman to have backed off. Like nearly all sociology, though, it just isn't dynamic enough to predict, second by second, what Zimmerman should have done second by second. This is the whole point of those who are against concealed carry, while simultaneously being the whole point of those who are FOR concealed carry and stand your ground in Florida. These kinds of confrontations are way way too dynamic for the police to handle, which is why many American believe it's best that the state has no monopoly on gun violence. In other words, there are circumstances under which the life and health of any one US citizen are outside any action by the police (the state). For the guy who's being attacked, it's a life or death choice and the state says under certain circumstances you make take action to save your life and that action is not criminal.

Sure it's a tragedy that a gosling like Martin died in this situation. There can be no doubt of that in my view. Until a Florida jury determines George Zimmerman's guilt in Martin's death, though, I'll withhold my judgment of the survivor (and defendant).

It's the way I see it, anyway.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Dr. McCoy » 26 May 2012, 09:22

Of course we will wait for the trial. I am just stating my opinion. I think what Zimmerman did was something like entrapment. He created a situation where he got to kill somebody.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby flike » 26 May 2012, 09:40

Dr. McCoy wrote:Of course we will wait for the trial. I am just stating my opinion. I think what Zimmerman did was something like entrapment. He created a situation where he got to kill somebody.

Got it. It's a rational opinion, in my opinion (for what it's worth).

I am far less sure than you, but again I am withholding all judgment until the jury (or the judge) renders a verdict.

Again, it's an unfortunate, unfortunatelly MINOR, tragedy that a young adult (whatever that means) could die an American death like Trayvon's death. Not optimal, and I don't care what the situation is, guns or not, gun rights or not. Very sad.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Tigerman » 26 May 2012, 12:59

Dr. McCoy wrote:I think what Zimmerman did was something like entrapment. He created a situation where he got to kill somebody.


I agree that the entire incident is a tragedy.

But, based on the facts currently known, what Zimmerman did was nothing like entrapment. GZ did not create a situation where he got to kill somebody. GZ, as far as we know based on the current facts, did nothing that created a situation where he got to kill somebody.

Based on the currently known facts, TM created the situation where he got himself killed. TM did so when he got on top of GZ and began pounding GZ's face and smashing GZ's head against the hard concrete. That's a good way to get yourself killed by someone who is able to use self defense.

More evidence may be disclosed later. We may learn that GZ is indeed guilty of the charge against him. But, at this time, there is nothing in the facts that should lead anyone to reasonably conclude that GZ created a situation where he got to kill somebody.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Mick » 27 May 2012, 10:12

Dr. McCoy wrote:Of course we will wait for the trial. I am just stating my opinion. I think what Zimmerman did was something like entrapment. He created a situation where he got to kill somebody.


I understand that it seems unfair that no charges were brought to Zimmerman, I also can understand the families frustration, it must have seemed very strange that a person could be largely responsible for initializing a conflict and then use a gun and kill their son and have no charges brought against him. Then again there are many laws that I don't agree with.

But what they did, was to fabricate a story, use the media to inflame racial hatred, a story which would shock and confound people into lending their support. Which it did, right up to the president of the USA, the problem was it was a lie.

Dr. McCoy says Zimmerman is not being left to the wolves, yet questions why anyone would take the time to set the record straight on his behalf. I would also like to know Dr.McCoys opinion on if he thinks who is to blame if Rodney King like riots should occur should Zimmerman be found not guilty, bearing in mind over 50 died in those riots, thousands injured and over a billion in damages were caused. What is Dr. McCoys opinion on when the justice system doesn't work for you, fabricate a socking version of events to inflame and incite the mob?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Dr. McCoy » 27 May 2012, 11:07

I believe you have overblown the part about the media inflaming racial hatred. We don't know whether there will be riots or not. Whether or not there will be riots shouldn't change the outcome of the trial.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin Clusterf*ck

Postby Mick » 27 May 2012, 15:46

Dr. McCoy wrote:I believe you have overblown the part about the media inflaming racial hatred.


If you consider falsely reporting Zimmerman had said "fucking coons" and then falsely reporting Zimmerman ignored instructions to stop following Trayvon and other media outlets doctoring audio to make it look like he racially profiled Trayvon and initially reporting he was white and a police cover up, no doubt because they are racist too, an exaggeration, then perhaps I am.

Did George Zimmerman Complain About ‘F*cking C**ns’ In 911 Call Before Killing Trayvon Martin? and no, he did not.

Don't forget they also falsely reported Zimmerman was 100lbs heavier, used a photo for Trayvon from years ago making people incredulous to the idea that it was Trayvon who assaulted Zimmerman, just read back to the earlier parts of this thread.

Also after weeks of non stop coverage in favour of Trayvon, MSNBC Primetime Makes Zero Mentions Of Trayvon Martin Case After Pro-Zimmerman Evidence Surfaces Facts like Zimmerman spending hours putting out fliers seeking justice for a homeless black man Sherman Ware were conveniently ignored.

Dr. McCoy wrote:We don't know whether there will be riots or not.


There have already been reprisal attacks, New Black Panther Party Offers $10K Bounty For George Zimmerman so I guess Zimmerman will be in hiding for a while.

Dr. McCoy wrote:Whether or not there will be riots shouldn't change the outcome of the trial.


I've yet to see anything that justifies a 2nd degree murder charge, maybe we will. But there would have been no charges if not for the lies and hysteria used to provoke the mob and now, if there really is no evidence to bring about a conviction there will be some very unhappy campers out there. You don't think those that swallowed the false narrative hook line and sinker and called for a bonfire to roast Zimmerman are morally responsible for creating such a volatile atmosphere?
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