Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

IP is the place for boisterous political discussion, but please remember, the Rules still apply, especially with regards to Personal Attacks. These and other inappropriate posts will be removed without notification.

Moderators: Mick, TheGingerMan

Forum rules
IP is the place for boisterous political discussion, but please remember, the Rules still apply, especially with regards to Personal Attacks. These and other inappropriate posts will be removed without notification.

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 01 May 2012, 16:16

A fascinating post Fred, and one that has - like some of your other posts of late - made me think twice about the current validity of the last IPCC report.

However, I must say that climate science is bloody complicated, and that the core hypothesis of AGW may still be true. However, it will be up to the IPCC to take recent findings and analyses into consideration for their 2014 report. Let's see what they say. Scientific truth is a moving target.

I think it is silly to assume that many people would actually prefer that AGW actually be taking place just in order not to be proven wrong.
Forumosan avatar
BigJohn
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: 25 Jun 2005, 01:45
Location: Lost in time, lost in space...and meaning
97 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby fred smith » 05 May 2012, 00:49

So... climate change is "complicated." Interesting... for those of us who have been arguing much the same for decades, it is interesting to see how public opinion has now come around to our point of view. I guess Republicans know something after all and if we have learned one thing it is that communism rears its ugly economy distorting head to find new ways to redistribute from the productive to the nonproductive lazy worthless panderer whether those in support of Third Worldism, anti-imperialism, liberation theology, safety nets or reparations of one kind or another... same shit different sensitivity... this one just happens to be environmental. One would not even have to know anything about science to know where this movement was going... typical.... leftist... shit-stirring, while demanding to be funded ... protest but pay for my lifestyle shit... now of course with global warming on its last legs... occupy wall street rises to the fore... and after that? no doubt something new and clever but it will always be something for those who are too stupid but overeducated and those who don't want to work but want to be paid will always find a way...
Forumosan avatar
fred smith
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16508
Joined: 11 Oct 2002, 17:14
54 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 05 May 2012, 00:51

fred smith wrote:So... climate change is "complicated." Interesting... for those of us who have been arguing much the same for decades, it is interesting to see how public opinion has now come around to our point of view. I guess Republicans know something after all and if we have learned one thing it is that communism rears its ugly economy distorting head to find new ways to redistribute from the productive to the nonproductive lazy worthless panderer whether those in support of Third Worldism, anti-imperialism, liberation theology, safety nets or reparations of one kind or another... same shit different sensitivity... this one just happens to be environmental. One would not even have to know anything about science to know where this movement was going... typical.... leftist... shit-stirring, while demanding to be funded ... protest but pay for my lifestyle shit... now of course with global warming on its last legs... occupy wall street rises to the fore... and after that? no doubt something new and clever but it will always be something for those who are too stupid but overeducated and those who don't want to work but want to be paid will always find a way...


That's very gracious of you. You are really a class act.

BTW, do you have a tattoo of Ayn Rand on your buttocks? I am merely curious.
Forumosan avatar
BigJohn
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: 25 Jun 2005, 01:45
Location: Lost in time, lost in space...and meaning
97 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby fred smith » 05 May 2012, 01:05

That's very gracious of you. You are really a class act.

BTW, do you have a tattoo of Ayn Rand on your buttocks? I am merely curious.


Oh, I am very gracious. Let me ask you this (follows):

1. Has any of the billions/trillions spent to raise awareness or fight or mitigate or whatever stop global warming done ANY good? No? ER?

2. Is it likely that any good will come of all the marches, efforts, awareness campaigns? No? er?

So tattoos of Ayn Rand are not necessary, but a functioning brainstem is? or would you argue that it is not? or is that ungracious of me to point out?
Forumosan avatar
fred smith
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16508
Joined: 11 Oct 2002, 17:14
54 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby bob » 05 May 2012, 01:28

fred smith wrote: So? Let's start a poll, what WILL be next?


My guess? Increased subsidies to oil companies, another round of finacial disasters (made possible by deregulation of the finacial sector,) an ever widening gap bewtween the rich and poor (and all the conflict that implies,) a deepening of the recession in much of the developed world (made a thousand times worse by austerity measures,) increased sales at luxury brand outlets (while your average working stiff barely makes enough to survive,) bigger more expensive prisons in lieu of enlightened social policies, more binding trade agreements and with even more dictatorial governments, increased state funding of deluded religious programs in the public school system, HUGE fucking floods happening more and more frequently in more and more cities, a quickening of the pace of species extinction and habitat destruction, another dozen mountains tops (and their attendent river and valley systems) are destroyed in Virginia to supprt the coal industry, Albertans get richer, eat more steak and consider it patriotic, much of China forgets what the sun looks like, alternative energy systems remain competitive but somehow never quite take off, more gun rampages (you could kill more with car but nobody goes on rampages with their car, must be something in the nature of "guns," whaddya think there dumbos, hmmm...) increased salaries for fat ass think tank liars, and Ted Nugent becomes president of the United States (a theocracy.)

Oh, and no increase in carbon taxes.
bob
Golden Lotus (huángjīn liánhuā)
Golden Lotus (huángjīn liánhuā)
 
Posts: 8625
Joined: 14 May 2004, 14:11
Location: sunk
21 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby BigJohn » 05 May 2012, 10:53

fred smith wrote:
That's very gracious of you. You are really a class act.

BTW, do you have a tattoo of Ayn Rand on your buttocks? I am merely curious.


Oh, I am very gracious. Let me ask you this (follows):

1. Has any of the billions/trillions spent to raise awareness or fight or mitigate or whatever stop global warming done ANY good? No? ER?

2. Is it likely that any good will come of all the marches, efforts, awareness campaigns? No? er?

So tattoos of Ayn Rand are not necessary, but a functioning brainstem is? or would you argue that it is not? or is that ungracious of me to point out?


Trillions? Is that a joke?

The whole point about GW is that people think / thought it was a serious problem. Most people who are / were activists and participated in events did so in the sincere belief that they were raising awareness of a serious issue. Of course, if the problem is not so serious or we are really less sure about it now (let's see what happens in 2014) then these marches and campaigns were not useful. That is, it has always been about whether there is a problem. If so, then marches and campaigns can help get media attention, make voters aware of issues, pressure leaders to enact regulation etc. So yes, they can make a difference when there is a real problem.

You may not agree that marches and campaigns do anything, but in any case, there are two issues here: is AGW happening? and Does raising awareness help fight it?

I suppose it was the lingering doubts about the reality and scale of AGW which delayed and diluted action by leaders on GHG. Perhaps they were right, perhaps we were caught up in the groupthink. Again, it's too early to say. But in any case, it was not all an evil plot by Elsworth Twohy and the Second Handers to steal money from Howard Roark. It is or was a bunch of people concerned about the fate of the planet.

A functioning brainstem? For what? Autonomic functions? Thinking happens in other parts of the brain, Fred.
Forumosan avatar
BigJohn
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
National Security Advisor (guójiā ānquán gùwèn)
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: 25 Jun 2005, 01:45
Location: Lost in time, lost in space...and meaning
97 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby fred smith » 05 May 2012, 13:48

Does raising awareness help fight it?


Cite one example where it has and win the day...
Forumosan avatar
fred smith
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16508
Joined: 11 Oct 2002, 17:14
54 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby fred smith » 05 May 2012, 13:58

My guess? Increased subsidies to oil companies,


I believe that the current oil subsidies are under reconsideration and may be removed even though THESE are merely the SAME types of incentives that ALL companies receive for re-investment so wherein lies the BIG deal with those given to oil subsidies and not to er the Solyndras?

another round of finacial disasters (made possible by deregulation of the finacial sector,)


Has financial deregulation had any positive benefit? Think of that every time that you use your ATM in a foreign country without paying a fee because of international linkups... You fail to mention all the benefits (and there are many). I assume then that you are less worried about deregulation and would prefer to see MORE enforcement of existing regulation which would mean of course ending social policy prescriptions like pressure on banks to loan money to people who are marginally stable financially.... with a very direct impact on their ability to buy a car or home. Right? is that what you are saying?

an ever widening gap bewtween the rich and poor (and all the conflict that implies,) a deepening of the recession in much of the developed world (made a thousand times worse by austerity measures,) increased sales at luxury brand outlets (while your average working stiff barely makes enough to survive,)


Must have been one hell of a doobie dude... rock on!

bigger more expensive prisons in lieu of enlightened social policies,


Such as allowing people to steal because of their "need?" Interesting that we never see supermarkets getting looted but only high-end clothing stores and expensive electronics which kinda sorta puts your argument into a bit of a, er, conundrum?

more binding trade agreements and with even more dictatorial governments,


???

increased state funding of deluded religious programs in the public school system,


Where is this happening?

HUGE fucking floods happening more and more frequently in more and more cities,


You and your floods. What is it with you and flooding?

a quickening of the pace of species extinction and habitat destruction,


What kind of species extinction are we talking about here? The loss of one nearly the exact same species of frog in one valley but not in the thousands of others. Who gets to decide what a meaningfully separate species is?

another dozen mountains tops (and their attendent river and valley systems) are destroyed in Virginia to supprt the coal industry,


Coal use is peaking... do you have any evidence of mountaintops in Virginia being destroyed?

Albertans get richer, eat more steak and consider it patriotic,


Jesus. What is that all about?

much of China forgets what the sun looks like,


Most cities in China are improving when it comes to air quality... certainly the smog is getting better, not necessarily particulates... which cities are you referring to as getting bad? Remember Taipei used to be terrible but then economic development meant more wealth to spend on environmental measures and voila... Taipei is pretty clean these days and look at Kaohsiung... so again more economic development seems to be the solution... no one ever mentioned the extensive coal burning of early communist development... despite the advent of the auto owning revolution, surely China's cities are much better off particularly in winter without all that coal being burned on every street corner?

alternative energy systems remain competitive but somehow never quite take off,


because they still are NOT more competitive.

more gun rampages (you could kill more with car but nobody goes on rampages with their car, must be something in the nature of "guns,"


If I had one right now, it would not be too difficult to shoot your protoliberal ramblings through.

whaddya think there dumbos, hmmm...) increased salaries for fat ass think tank liars, and Ted Nugent becomes president of the United States (a theocracy.)


Yeah... I can see that happening... Damn dude. Where did you get that spark?

Oh, and no increase in carbon taxes.


You'd better hope not because with the amounts of carbon you must have pumped out prior to writing this ramble, you would be paying da bomb.
Forumosan avatar
fred smith
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16508
Joined: 11 Oct 2002, 17:14
54 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby bob » 05 May 2012, 20:19

fred smith wrote:
increased state funding of deluded religious programs in the public school system,


Where is this happening?


England for one place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulX8nZjeCXE

My thing about floods is that there sure are a freakish number of them happening recently. I posted a link to a study indicating precisely the same thing awhile back but my guess is you ignored it.

The point of the ramble was that much of what is going wrong (and a lot is going wrong) in the world right now was caused by right wing policies (you surely can't be trying to sneak away now on your role in the financial meltdown - and by referance to ATM conviniences - good lord man.)
bob
Golden Lotus (huángjīn liánhuā)
Golden Lotus (huángjīn liánhuā)
 
Posts: 8625
Joined: 14 May 2004, 14:11
Location: sunk
21 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise

Postby fred smith » 05 May 2012, 20:42

Bob:

You need to slow down on the pot man... It is messing with your mind...

Right wing on the financial crisis? Oh really? Pray tell, how exactly did Europe reach its present state of affairs? too much of the right or too much of the left?

As to the financial meltdown in the US, where did it start? subprime mortgages and who was pushing for those? the right wing? or the well-meaning left?

So, er, what is your point bob?

As to flooding... jesus the world is going to end man...
Forumosan avatar
fred smith
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16508
Joined: 11 Oct 2002, 17:14
54 Recognized(s)

6000

PreviousNext




 
 
 x

Return to International Politics



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 2 visitors

If you have a baby, bring diapers. If you're diabetic, bring syringes. If you have high blood pressure, don't forget your medication. That way, I'm not trying to make a diaper out of a sanitary pad and a pillowcase or asking over the intercom if someone has a spare inhaler.
From "13 Things Your Flight Attendant Won't Tell You"