Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Winston Smith » 09 Jul 2012, 15:24

Chris wrote:
Winston Smith wrote:If the Ten Commandments became federal law in the U.S. they would pretty much shut down U.S. foreign policy as we've come to know it in this brave neo era. Thou shalt not bear false witness? That one alone would empty Gulagtanamo and put the kibosh on any new wars about nothing. On the plus side though trillions of dollars of otherwise "defense" dollars would become available to paper over these endless, politically paralyzing differences between liberals and conservatives on domestic issues.

Thou Shalt Not Kill would end all wars.
Thou Shalt Bear No False Witness would run Fox News out of business.
Thou Shalt Not Steal and Thou Shalt Not Covet They Neighbor's Goods, together, would put an end to corporate greed.

Cool!


Thou Shalt Not Steal and Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Goods might end up being double-edged swords though as some judge might construe them to mean that the liberal holy grail of 50% tax rates is nothing more than government sanctioned confiscation.
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Dr. McCoy » 09 Jul 2012, 17:12

Thou Shalt Not Kill would make the Old Testament a hell of lot shorter.
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Deuce Dropper » 09 Jul 2012, 17:18

fred smith wrote:
getting people to take responsibility for themselves is idealistic, there will always be a portion of the population unable to fend for themselves, and no matter how many pull yourself up from the bootstrap stories people come up with, certain people will still fall through the cracks.


Well make sure then that they have the tubal litigation to ensure that they are not having 12 children, living in government housing and getting free medical care and food and tuition while "falling through the cracks."

who cares what the bible says, doesn't your sacred constitution clearly separate that from the government? Unless you are preaching for a theocracy now.


Ah... ugly ignorance. The US Constitution and all of our Supreme Court rulings are founded DIRECTLY on Judaeo-Christian ethics... Go back and check out the Talmudic study that went on to buttress the decisions and norms of our Supreme Court... You did read about that didn't you? Check out Brandeis...

Hmm...Idealistic and theocratic, not the types of solutions I'd expect from fred smith.


Well, I am idealistic and I am religious... so I guess that means you just got a two-fer but then with a name like

Deuce Dropper


You should be used to being in the shit... not from what anyone is doing to you but from your own arguments and "lack" of support thereof....

Shit... Yeah... it's what's for breakfast... here's a spoon... You made it... you eat it... God... more proof that vouchers are needed... is this really what our schools are turning out? God (deliberate) what a fucking (haha) joke (interpretive philosophical stylistic sophism).... can you figure it out... can you? doubtful but give it a try...


Username insults, twice in a row now. Great stuff! :bravo:
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Shaktipalooza » 09 Jul 2012, 19:24

Call yourself a hardcore liberal or a hardcore conservative and I'll call you a sucker.

People love categorizing themselves and toeing a party line until their lips turn blue, even if the arguments are retarded. Meanwhile, a country is looted and liberty dies a slow (sort of) death...
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Winston Smith » 09 Jul 2012, 20:26

Dr. McCoy wrote:Thou Shalt Not Kill would make the Old Testament a hell of lot shorter.


The real nemesis of liberals and conservatives would be the biblical admonition to 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. If that precept were made into federal law it would pretty much shut down both the Democratic and Republican Parties -- at least as we know them.
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby fred smith » 09 Jul 2012, 20:33

Username insults, twice in a row now. Great stuff!


If you are offended, then I am truly sorry but I thought that you chose the name Deuce Dropper deliberately as in an attempt to generate exactly this type of exchange. Surely, one does not choose Deuce Dropper and then pretend to be offended when people make scatological references, non?
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby MikeN » 11 Jul 2012, 17:44

fred smith wrote: Go back and check out the Talmudic study that went on to buttress the decisions and norms of our Supreme Court... You did read about that didn't you? Check out Brandeis...


Hmmm :ponder: You mentioned this twice. I assume 'Brandeis' is Louis Brandeis, the great liberal jurist;
-first Jewish Supreme Court Judge;
-advocate for labor rights, bitterly hated by the corporations;
-father (or at least midwife) to the idea of the "living Constitution";
-whose "Brandeis Brief" opened the gates to so much progressive jurisprudence, including Brown v. Board of Education;
-whose deriving of the right to privacy from the Constitution led to cases such as Griswold v. Connecticut and Roe v. Wade.
That Brandeis? :bravo:

Are you referring to some writings of Brandeis claiming Talmudic influences on the U.S. Constitution?
Seems unlikely, Talmud being a post-Christian development of Judaism- hardly a respectable source of study for 18th-C. jurists steeped in English common-law traditions.

I've googled many combinations of 'Brandeis' 'Talmud' 'Supreme Court', 'Constitution' etc. and have come up with bupkes. Can you give more details/links?
(Searching for those terms leads pretty quickly to some nasty anti-semitic conspiracy sites).



The US Constitution and all of our Supreme Court rulings are founded DIRECTLY on Judaeo-Christian ethics...


Taking up my trusty copy of "The Federalist Papers" (Penguin Classics edition) I look in the Index and find,

Classical references (number of mentions in Index, some multi-page):

Greece (Ancient)(7), (separately) Athens (6), Sparta (6); Rome (all classical, not Christian) (9); Achean League (5); Amphictyonic Council (3); Roman consuls (1); ancient lawgivers(Greek/Roman, not Hebrew) (1); Lycian Confederacy (3); Lycurgus (3); Macedon( 2) ; Pericles (1); Peloponnesian War (2)

Total number of references to Judaism, Christianity, Jews, Christians, Bible (Old and New Testament), God, Jesus, Moses, other Biblical names, places, or references, post-Biblical Jewish or Christian thinkers or ideas: 0

(There's one mention of Cardinal Wolsey, but not by name and not flatteringly- nor about Christianity.)

Religion is mentioned twice: once arguing that more power should rest at the federal level in order to dilute the danger of some religious sect gaining power in one area (foreseeing Mormonism?); and once mentioning that a President, unlike a King, has no religious privileges.

And of course the authors' chosen pseudonym was "Publius"; their opponents were "Cato" and "Brutus".

But then what did James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, or John Jay know about the foundations of the Constitution?

If they were founding the U.S.Constitution DIRECTLY on Judaeo-Christian ethics they were doing a very good job of concealing the fact.

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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Gao Bohan » 13 Jul 2012, 22:58

johnny138 wrote:Most Christian conservatives support charity, not taxation and government mandated handouts. Charity is an individual religious act that is supported. There's nothing contradictory about it.


This applies mostly to Protestants in English-speaking Western countries, especially the US, with its cultural revulsion against government involvement. In Catholic countries it's normal for staunch Catholics to advocate government assistance to the poor, and these policies have been supported by the Vatican for more than a century. I'm sure Anglo-American Protestants and Latin Catholics all think their interpretation is correct and obvious.

Of course, American conservative Christians had no problem whatsoever using the power of the state to criminalize abortion and homosexuality, and both would still be illegal were it not for the Supreme Court, which is of course criticized as "liberal" and "atheistic" for overturning those laws. And even with the SCOTUS' restrictions, Republicans repeatedly find ways to make life difficult for women who haven't lived the flawless life Republican men want them to, and gays who are just trying to live life. But food stamps for the poorest of the poor? Out of the question.
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Re: Hypocrisy in Liberal and Conservatives Ideals and Platforms

Postby Winston Smith » 14 Jul 2012, 11:20

Since legislation without representation (ie "the living Constitution") is so much more enlightened and progressive than legislation with representation (ie. "democracy") maybe the U.S. should just give up all pretense of being a democracy and just give itself over to Politburo-style government by nine member political and intellectual elite. Legislatures could be retained to handle such mundane policy making matters as garbage collection, animal control and street maintenance and any other issues beneath the dignity of the Supreme Council.

The U.S. runs the risk of giving the old Soviet Union the last laugh though if it give itself over too much to politburo style government, Gulagtanamo style "justice" and phony wars of liberation. That would be the supreme irony indeed if one day the U.S. wakes up and finds itself staring back at the U.S.S.A. in the mirror.

Ha, ha, ha. Gotta love human nature and its capacity for supreme ironies though. Life would be so much more boring without them.
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