presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

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presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Cooperations » 28 Jun 2012, 20:42

Since it is now pretty obvious that this will be a two horse (pig?)race, let the debate begin. There hasn't been much of a debate to date, just people who hate Obama and those who don't (and a couple who like him). No one seems to really like Romney-he's just not likeable. I personally don't like either candidate, but I severely dislike one more. To be fair, the people who don't like Obama have good reasons:
http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/is ... epage=true
There is a lot of ranting in that article, but some valid points. My main beef with Obama is that he has been a fairly weak leader. He should have completely went for the health plan he wanted, for example, and not bowed to the blue dogs. That was his fault entirely. He has never been as strong of a leader as Clinton was. Policy wise, I don't always agree with him, but that leads me to Romney.

I don't remember a candidate this weak since Dukakis. Romney has avoided being specific on any issue.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything like this.

If this is the Etch A Sketch phase of Mitt Romney’s campaign, he seems to want to freeze it the moment after you shake the toy, before you turn the knobs again: blank.

Mitt Romney wants to run as the generic candidate, the every man and any man, undefined, nonspecific, the other guy, anybody but Obama.

Romney inserts “economy” into every sentence but recoils from specificity like a slug from salt... He can create jobs and make the economy grow, somehow. He can cut government spending and cut taxes, somehow. He can fix immigration and education, somehow. He can do a better job of dealing with the healthcare system and our entitlement programs, somehow.


This strategy obviously cannot last. He is going to have to stand for something beyond "job creation" as if that is a principle or plan of some kind. For how long can he keep saying what Obama has done on immigration or the economy is wrong when he offers no plans for anything whatsoever. I have not heard a single plan put forth, which leads to his second big problem: regardless of what he says, he is going to contradict a previous position. He has zero credibility on health care or gay marriage,for example. No matter what position he takes, it will be easy for team-Obama to paint him as a flip flopper. Right now, team Romney seems to be keeping him on the fence on every issue. Have you seen this guy in interviews? It's like watching a caricature of a slimy politician who will say anything to get elected, but it's real. Additionally, all politicians lie, but Romney seems to lie as if he is running in the days before there was radio. He lies about his lies. I think the dem party should buy 30 minute prime time slots and just run his statements for a month up to the election, Jon Stewart style. At the rate he's going, they will have enough material for it.

I will be interested to see if Romney comes up with any real plan for....uh, anything. I'm going to stay open minded for now, but I'm not swayed in his direction at all. Plus, I'm still convinced he will lose by wide margins.
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Dr. McCoy » 28 Jun 2012, 22:02

I will vote for Obama, but I can accept Romney. Romney has all the money so I don't see how he will lose. He seems like a nice enough fellow.
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby SuperSneakyCow » 01 Jul 2012, 14:30

Dr. McCoy wrote:I will vote for Obama, but I can accept Romney. Romney has all the money so I don't see how he will lose. He seems like a nice enough fellow.


Except that he's actually not a nice person. Much of his wealth was accrued at Bain Capitol by rigging his business' services in such a way that, no whether or not his business did a good job, he made millions of dollars. Lots of times, Bain Capitol did not make a business any money at all, but still liquidated all of their assets through millions of dollars in fees. Romney is a sleazy car salesman, and he only looks out for himself, not the taxpayer.

Also, I'm not sure how you totally skipped the reality of the obvious problem that "oh hey, this guy has a boat-load of money, which will allow him to win" and arrived at "he seems like a nice enough fellow" without pointing out the endemic problem with our democracy.

Obama's not weak, but he's a politician, through and through. He's clearly not on a "3 dimensional chess" level, since he sometimes makes breathtakingly wrong calculations, and misses opportunities. Then again, being a politician is probably just as bad as being weak, as both things mean that you are unlikely to stick to the values that allowed you to gain favor.

On the other hand, Republicans have gone insane since Bush "won" in 2000, and have used every lie and deceit tactic available to coerce Obama, the lackey compromiser, into adopting their policies. Remember, Obamacare was a Republican idea before Obama adopted it.
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Dr. McCoy » 01 Jul 2012, 14:35

Romney had a very successful health care system in Mass. They have almost 100% of the people covered.
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Cooperations » 11 Jul 2012, 21:00

Romney appears to be writing the script for the Obama campaign....again:
Image

I thought republicans hated people who enjoy water sports?
Image
Remember how much stink republicans made about this? They actually tried to paint kite boarding, something that actually takes a small investment, as elitist. I kite board and even hang out with kite boarders at the beach. Elitist is not one of the adjectives that comes to mind....

I guess its ok if you're riding bitch on an expensive jet ski, then hopping in a speed boat most Americans cannot afford, and then swimming with a shirt on. Obama is likely thinking: just do you, Mitt.
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Dr. McCoy » 13 Jul 2012, 12:38

Drudge reports that Condi Rice is the frontrunner for Romney VP. I can't believe anyone would think that would be a good idea. Plus, he's fundraising with Cheney this weekend. I guess they looked at the polls and said that what the country needs is Bush/Cheney II.
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Deuce Dropper » 13 Jul 2012, 12:49

Republican John Kerry (Romney) has way too many skeletons in his closet, and a fucked up religion if all those skeletons fail to turn off or scare voters. No amount of money can help him win.

Obama is teflon, people have called him:

-a foreigner
-a muslim
-a former madrassa student
-a socialist
-a wealth redistributor
-a Christian extremist
-a destroyer of America
-a murderer
-not a 'real' black person
-a drug user (admitted by Obama)

etc
etc
etc

And yet somehow people still think the media is in the bag for him.

Romney doesn't have a hope in hell, Americans truly don't want Romney (even his own party's faithful dislike him) and you can bump this thread in November.

Real talk
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Gao Bohan » 14 Jul 2012, 05:24

Dr. McCoy wrote:Romney had a very successful health care system in Mass. They have almost 100% of the people covered.


Yes, and he's sworn to repeal ObamaCare. Can you really "accept" that?
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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Dog's_Breakfast » 14 Jul 2012, 07:42

I'm a US citizen and this is the first election I can remember when I feel completely uninhibited about voting for a third party candidate.

This is not to say that there are no differences between Romney and Obama. The come from very different backgrounds.

Romney in no way can relate to the struggle of poor and the middle class to survive, nor could he give a damn if they all starved in the streets. All he cares about is the value of his stock portfolio. It's obvious that Romney would be corrupt to the bone, working for Wall Street hedge fund interests. To use the #OccupyWallStreet expression, Romney represents the 1%. You might as well vote for Bernie Madoff for president. As red meat for his conservative base, Romney might ban abortion - if his daughter or granddaughter needs an abortion, he'll ship her off to Canada or Europe.

Obama, on the other hand, was until recently a struggling member of the middle class. He understands what it's like to be in the 99%. He also gives nice, reassuring speeches, to let us know that "he cares." Unlike Romney, he is not worth hundreds of millions of dollars - yet. But he's well on his way. Following in the steps of Bill Clinton, who sold us out big time by deregulating Wall Street (see here and here). For his efforts, Clinton is now worth well over $100 million - the bribes come mainly in the form of "speaking fees" paid to him by Wall Street bankers who don't even show up to hear the speeches (why should they, they wrote them). As a reward for those $16 trillion in bankster bailouts, Obama can expect an even bigger payoff than Clinton. Obama's two daughters will (just like Chelsea Clinton) be guaranteed high-paying jobs with a Wall Street hedge fund (where Chelsea met her bankster husband). "Hope and Change" was never anything but a slogan. Unlike Romney, Obama might toss us a few worthless crumbs, like "gay marriage," an issue I don't even care about.

So go ahead and vote third party, if you feel inspired enough to vote at all. If you're a conservative, you might want to consider the Libertarian Party or Constitution Party (the latter especially big with the anti-abortion folks). Don't be fooled by the "Tea Party" - it's not a party, just a front for the Republicans. Liberals have several interesting choices, including the Green Party, Justice Party or (my personal favorite) the Pirate Party. The chances that any of these third parties could actually win the presidency is certainly nil, but at least voting third party might help you sleep at night. You'll be able to tell your grand children after the USA has collapsed that at least you didn't vote for that guy who declared martial law in 2015 (after the food riots broke out in the tent cities).

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Re: presidential election 2012: Romney v Obama

Postby Dr. McCoy » 14 Jul 2012, 11:53

Right wing media claims that Obama is Gutting Welfare Reform.
This is why Romney has an excellent chance to win the election. He has an effective propaganda system that describes itself as news but has intense hatred for the president.
And also, he has all the money.
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