spook wrote: gao_bo_han wrote:
spook wrote:Do you believe the Palestinian people have a fundamental right to live in Gaza and the West Bank in a Palestinian state or that they should be transferred out -- forcibly if necessary -- because they don't have a right to be there?
Here’s the problem spook. The Palestinians perceive the entirety of Israel as their rightful territory and do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli government any more than do other Muslim nations (with a handful of exceptions). The Palestinian government is brazen in its ambition to “drive the Jews into the sea.” I am simply not convinced the Palestinians are content to stay within their own borders. Are you?
Given the situation, I think it is silly to go around debating land rights. The Israelis cannot realistically hope to negotiate with a nation who is dedicated to their destruction. If the Palestinians recognize Israel, renounce terrorism, and stop electing terrorists to lead them, then I do think negotiation is possible. Until then, I don’t see how questions of land and resources are going to be handled by anything but war.
You didn't answer the question.
Yes I did. I said the question is meaningless in light of the circumstances. My answer is not “no” as you undoubtedly think. Nor is it “yes” at this point. Now if the Palestinians would stop electing people who have vowed to drive the Jews into the sea, would renounce terrorism and effectively suppress the terrorists among them, then I think a civilized discussion of land rights can take place at that point and YES I will support their right to the land. Until then, I don’t think either the Jews or the Palestinians have an inherent right to the land. And I say this DESPITE the fact the early Zionist movement consisted solely of buying Arab land –legally- and hauling in as many Jews as they could.
Are you reading me here? I am saying that despite the fact most of the habitable land in Israel was bought legally by the Jews from the Arabs (the largely uninhabitable Negev and Galilee were ceded to it by the British, which took it from Ottoman Empire), I am not so naïve as to say the Jews have a fundamental right to the land. The Zionists surely must have known there would eventually be resistance and displacement of the local Arabs, and one could make the argument the early aliyah settlements were the beginning of a quasi-organized invasion. That is certainly how the Arabs see it. Telling them, “your ancestors shouldn’t have sold the land if they didn't want this to happen” does not impress them. I was in their shoes I’d feel the same way.
Do you believe the Israelis have a right to all of the land within Israel? What about the Arab villages the Haganah forcibly evacuated and are now populated by Jewish settlers and their descendants? How about the Negev and the Galilee? The only reason the Jews got it was because they terrorized the British enough to cede it over before they left. Does this really give them a fundamental right to that land? The Bedouin don’t think so. As far as their concerned its their land and always was. To hell with the British and the Turks and even the other Arabs. Should we draw off 80% of Israel and cede it to the Bedouin?
Honestly, trying to determine land rights in these cases becomes absurd. I really don’t see how the question is going to be solved except through warfare.