Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby TainanCowboy » 21 Jun 2010, 07:54

Seems like an awfully large expenditure of taxpayer dollars just to keep brown-skinned people out.
When facts and logic fail...Play the Race Card...LOL!

Hilarious that there is still such a lack of understanding what the word ILLEGAL means among some groups.

Is 'ignorance' now a university course?
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby TwoTongues » 21 Jun 2010, 14:22

ice raven wrote:6 feet of razor wire can be defeated by a door put over the top. There's a way round every obstacle.

Sensors every kilometer will result in an overload in callouts as the guardians respond to every bird and animal that trigger the sensors. Though if IR cameras were installed along with the sensors...

A simple wall, which will force people to be on foot rather than in cars, plus regular outposts and/or mobile patrols would probably be the simplest and most effective.

I know for a fact there's technology to defeat the vast majority of misreads these days (though whether the government can do the procurement and installation right is a whole other ballgame) unless it's a huge fucking bird and it sticks to the ground. But yeah simple wall with plenty of sensors cameras might do the trick.
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby Chris » 21 Jun 2010, 14:32

TainanCowboy wrote:
Seems like an awfully large expenditure of taxpayer dollars just to keep brown-skinned people out.
When facts and logic fail...Play the Race Card...LOL!

Hilarious that there is still such a lack of understanding what the word ILLEGAL means among some groups.

Is 'ignorance' now a university course?

Xenophobia lies at the very heart of the issue. It's based on the premise that Homo sapiens from outside a country are somehow lesser human beings than Homo sapiens from inside a country, and based on that idea, the country enacts laws to keep such supposed less-worthy human beings out. Illegal aliens are only "illegal" because of laws based in xenophobic thinking.

It's tribalism. It's "us vs. them". It's xenophobia. :raspberry:

Time for the human race to grow the eff up.
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby saddletramp » 21 Jun 2010, 16:49

Time for the human race to grow the eff up.


Starting with you pal :raspberry:
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby saddletramp » 21 Jun 2010, 20:11

Chris wrote:Sigh....

I said "Let them stay." Grant them the status to reside and work in the US. Employ them. Then they can support their families, have health insurance, etc.. Then you don't have to pay the few dimes more per year it would cost you to support the kids.


Yea, lets just give them all jobs, right. There are an estimated 11.5 million illegal immigrants in the US. As you know, the economy has been in the shitter of late. Indeed, Barak Omaba has stated that job creation will be one of his highest priorities now that he has health care sorted.
He plans to create 1.5 million new jobs, and indeed if he pulls it off, he will be seen to have had a good presidency.
Now, I didn't go to no Ivy League College, but my limited math skills, being that I am from a backwater state, says that the math doesn't quite add up there.
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby Gao Bohan » 21 Jun 2010, 21:47

ice raven wrote:6 feet of razor wire can be defeated by a door put over the top. There's a way round every obstacle.


And yet both the Israeli and Iraqi governments consider their walls to be spectacular successes. :ponder:

Another proposal I've seen is for a series of walls and fences, of varying types, three in, plus a road lined with IR cameras and patrolled by CPB agents, and three out. It would be extremely difficult for one person to get through, much less a large group.

The "virtual" fence you're talking about is actively being built. That's one option. The problem is that it does not present an actual barrier. The sensors can easily be cut off or ignored by unfriendly administrations, whereas it would be politically untenable to tear down six layers of fencing or an Israeli-style wall. Given that the goal is to permanently secure the southern border, I don't think a virtual fence is the best solution, particularly given that it's not even planned to cover the entire border.
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby Chris » 21 Jun 2010, 21:53

Gao Bohan wrote:And yet both the Israeli and Iraqi governments consider their walls to be spectacular successes.

The very fact that these walls exist signifies failure.
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby Chris » 21 Jun 2010, 22:43

saddletramp wrote:
Chris wrote:I am calling this law racist at worst, xenophobic at best.


Show me where there is any fucking mention of race in this law!!

A law doesn't have to mention race to be racist.

But it's easy to see who will be targeted, given the ethnic makeup of illegal immigrants in Arizona.

My main point, however, is on a more abstract, philosophical level: that the very idea of an "illegal immigrant" is absurd, no matter what ethnic or national origin someone is from. This is because we all belong to the same species. What makes one human being more worthy than another to reside in a country? What philosophical or rational basis is there to say "You can be here, but he can't?"

Imagine a house in the desert on the border between Mexico and the US. There's a bed right on the border. A woman gives birth to twins. The first one comes out on the Mexican side of the border, making him a Mexican citizen. The mother then shifts position, and the second baby is born on the US side. The babies share the same DNA. They are raised by the same parents. They go to the same schools. They enter the same professions, and make the same amount of money. But they are citizens of different countries. What gives one the right to be in the US (or Mexico) but not the other?

I understand that these social realities exist. I don't understand the logic behind them.
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby saddletramp » 21 Jun 2010, 23:08

My main point, however, is on a more abstract, philosophical level: that the very idea of an "illegal immigrant" is absurd, no matter what ethnic or national origin someone is from.


I understand that, and on a strictly abstract, philosophical level, I can agree that it would be nice if we could absorb it all and take care of the masses.
As an alternative energy engineer, I have to question the sustainability of finite resources to the host state. We can not!
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Re: Arizona Clears Strict Immigration Law - Part II

Postby Chris » 21 Jun 2010, 23:39

Another question: what if there was a big migration of people into Arizona, but from other states of the US?

I think it's natural for people to go where there's opportunity. If opportunity dries up, they go elsewhere. Kind of a free market scenario.

Imagine if suddenly, all the world's borders were dissolved, and the entire planet became one big country. How would people migrate in such an scenario?
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