Just a farm house

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Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, you can send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Just a farm house

Postby Enigma » 18 Oct 2011, 07:02

I have been reading about Su's farmhouse and how it is out of compliance with the agricultural intent of the zoning requirements of agricultural land use in Taiwan.
Admitedly, I have not taken a personal visit. I have, however, seen the photos. The KMT has now admitted that the actual acreage occupied by the farmhouse is in compliance. Thus the only remaining issue is some ridiculaous wording of the law that requires that the remaining land be used for "agricultural purposes".

Admitted:

no tractors
no farm hands
no carrots
no poor folks dressed in peaked straw hats traditional to farm hands

However:

Trees
grassland
wildlife
CO2 reduction
no peaked hatted peasants (a plus side too)

Well, I grew up in farm land. I have never seen these arguments where I lived. We had agricultural zones but the government did not "dictate", as the KMT proposes. Sometimes we left the land fallow. It improves the land for future crops and owners are applauded for these efforts. Often this comes at a sacrifice to short term profits. The long term ecological benefits are enormous. (KMT, pay attention here! - - I know, not your long suit, but try!)

Also, I saw grass and trees on Su's farm. These contribute mightily to the environment and will only increase the value of his farm for future generations which will still be of uae for it's intended purpose - farmland.

There has been a great deal made about how grand the home is. I ponder why the hell the KMT thinks that farmers can't have, or don't deserverve, a nice home. If I can afford it and build it, well . . bite me and my farm house.

Last, this legislation was a zoning ordinance. Pure and simple. Unfortunately, no law in Taiwan is pure and simple. It was, however, never meant to be a a "best use" ordinance. Under a "best use" ordinance" one is forced, non-democratically, to put your resources to the best use available. That would result in Su having to make his farm profitable on an annual basis. An idle piece of privately held land downtown that is used as a park MUST be sold and used for it's best commercial use - a community or office building, all in the best economic interests of the economy and society. Of course this extends to farmland also. A small mom and pop acreage that is marginally profitable should, and must, be sold to the corporate farmers that can make the land more profitable. A free economy? KMT advocates the "best use"policy. I am not merely giving an opinion here. Look at their rhetoric.

Ok! I have had my political say.

Tonight, I will catch the next plane to any democratic country where people can still farm as they please, sans cacao, and build any style home within my means. Anybody want to do a photo exhibit of comaparable homes of the KMT and DPP? I'll sneak back in and help. Trust me! I will. How much difference do you propose you will find?

I will vote for the next candidate that says, Vote me me! I will do absolutely NOTHING for you and I promise that I will not tax you for it."

Democracy? I think not! Is KMT demanding an anti-democratic philosophy of dictated profit making? Best use doesn't work in any democratic society. If Su want's to run an unprofitable farm that, by the way, contributes to a reduction in CO2 and enviromental harmony, maybe the KMT should pull it out of an agricultural zone, stick up a high rise or, maybe plant carrots. If the KMT controls, mom and pop farmers better start looking at affordable taxis.

In conclusion, the ordinance was designed to keep agricutral land in that category and in that category it remains. This ordinance was not meant to demand that all farms be agricuturally profitable. Far from it. How many farms are actually profitable. To think that if that were the intent, we would demolish all non-profitable farms and build factories which would wreck havoc with the actual orignal intent.

Bye the way, to both of you pollitical parties:

Do you really think that ANYBODY listens to your little blue truck loudspeakers? All you do is piss everybody off. Knock it off and for no ther reason, you have my vote, especially if you get off Su's ass.


PS. MODS: Now do I have more than one recognized post after 10 years here and 2,000 posts?

This post was recommended by 2 Forumosans: finley (18 Oct 2011, 11:31), milkalex (18 Oct 2011, 09:29)
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby milkalex » 18 Oct 2011, 09:30

I agree totally.
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby LPeterC » 18 Oct 2011, 09:58

LTH was the one behind the current law allowing "farm house" on land zoned for agriculture. And, it is incorrect to translated them as houses. The ones built on farmland should be termed farm sheds, according to the zoning law. Those buildings are meant for utility purpose. There are other areas close by the farm land and designated for building houses. In those areas, you can build a true house, however grandiose, legally. I admit this kind of illegal activity is rampant, but they are still illegal, never the less. All of them should be torn down, until law is changed by the legislators.
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby finley » 18 Oct 2011, 11:30

What makes this story ridiculous is the way Su has been singled out for attention. I have seen dozens of "farm buildings" (yeah, that's what it says on the construction permit notice) going up on agriculture-zone land. Funny, but I've never seen chickens living in a five-storey air-conditioned apartment block, and I've never seen them require space for their cars either. The law is 100% ignored, which is why agricultural land is now being sold at the most ridiculous prices (NT$5000/ping and up). Taiwan will very soon have so little productive land that 90%+ of its food will be imported, which means it will be subject to every political whim of whichever nation is supplying the bulk of that food: most likely the US.

OTOH I completely agree with Enigma. A lot of farmland in Taiwan is in a terrible state, and I wish the "farmers" would just leave it alone for a few years, or plant a few short-lifespan trees on it (sesbania springs to mind) instead of pouring more chemicals on it. And as for farmers having nice houses: :thumbsup: . Why the hell should farming not be profitable?
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby headhonchoII » 18 Oct 2011, 12:42

Farmers get very little support in Taiwan with a pension of 6,000 NTD per month. If they can make a few bob by selling their land that's good for them. The government decided it wanted to join the WTO and mess up the farmers liveliehoods without adaquate compensation and give the benefit to other exporters.
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Chasin' down a hoodoo there.
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby haokaiyang » 18 Oct 2011, 20:02

Hear hear.

First the KMT went after the opposition's presidential candidate for her "illegal" tour bus; now they're going after the VP candidate for his "illegal" farmhouse. Just goes to show that regulations only exist to use against people you don't like. I hope these dirty tricks blow up in the KMT's face.
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby Mucha Man » 18 Oct 2011, 22:27

headhonchoII wrote:Farmers get very little support in Taiwan with a pension of 6,000 NTD per month....


6,000? Oh, man it's so much more than that.

ROC President Ma Ying-jeou announced a revised plan to increase the monthly pension for elderly farmers in Taiwan from the current NT$6,000 (US$199) to NT$6,316.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby BigJohn » 19 Oct 2011, 01:07

haokaiyang wrote:Hear hear.

First the KMT went after the opposition's presidential candidate for her "illegal" tour bus; now they're going after the VP candidate for his "illegal" farmhouse. Just goes to show that regulations only exist to use against people you don't like. I hope these dirty tricks blow up in the KMT's face.


It's a very clever tactic: be the first to make an issue over an illegal practice that has been tolerated up to now in Taiwan. That way you can empirically make the country less corrupt while at the same time giving your opponent a shot in the ribs. Definitely King Pu-tsung's level of strategic thinking, but I can't actually fault the KMT for using it, politics being rough and tumble eh wot? Nor do I have any info on King being involved, it just smells like him.

One thought though is that you'd have to make sure your own guys were clean in that department first. Which is why the disclosure would have to be coordinated at the top level.
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby Enigma » 11 Feb 2012, 14:49

I predict that Taiwan will soon reduce the amount of Ag zoning to allow more factories. You can't import jobs but you can import food. It's just around the corner. IMHO - not a bad idea. Taiwan is not now, nor never will have a sustainable agricultural base for its population so - why not?
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Re: Just a farm house

Postby finley » 11 Feb 2012, 14:56

Enigma wrote:I predict that Taiwan will soon reduce the amount of Ag zoning to allow more factories. You can't import jobs but you can import food. It's just around the corner. IMHO - not a bad idea. Taiwan is not now, nor never will have a sustainable agricultural base for its population so - why not?


"why not" is because importing food puts you in a politically precarious position, especially if there is a big grumpy neighbour who might be able to lean on your import partners.

Unfortunately I think you're right. Too many Taiwanese people don't see any value in having a sustainable agriculture base. They think it's backward to grow your own food. Sadly, there are a lot of people who are just starting to realise that it is important, but they'll get shouted down by the SUV-driving concrete fanatics. At least until China says, "OK, you guys, I think that's enough food for you lot for now. By the way, let's have a chat about that One China thing ...".
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