Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby Dog's_Breakfast » 04 Jan 2012, 20:06

Gao Bohan wrote:But my perspective on the American justice system is that is generally fair and objective. Laws and regulations, particularly in the criminal arena, are rigorously enforced. Even at the national level, congressmen, senators, and governors are routinely investigated and when crime is discovered, prosecuted and imprisoned. There are, I believe, two former governors and several congressmen currently incarcerated in federal penitentiaries. Criminals running the gamut from petty thieves to rich and powerful inside traders are made to serve their time.


I hate to say this, but I think you're living in a former era. Things have changed. You need to pay attention to what the whole Occupy Wall Street movement was about.

I could give you lots of links, but I'll start with one article:
Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

And one video:
Bill Black @Occupy Wall Street

Let me know if you want more to read/watch more. I've got plenty of links.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby Zla'od » 07 Jan 2012, 09:16

Sure, individual judges do a good job, just as they do in Iran. (There is a great documentary called "Divorce, Iranian Style"--the family law judge there is more or less the same sort of person as one finds anywhere.) But the Taiwanese legal system suffers from various structural, procedural, and cultural flaws such as independence of the judiciary, lack of habeas corpus,pervasive corruption, the parading of suspects before TV cameras, and a tendency to rely upon ad hoc "regulation" over law per se.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby RealityBites » 10 Jul 2012, 23:26

This is a common problem in any free society. We can start at the elections of civil servants. There is so many ways to tamper with the vote that it can call into question any elected official and by extension every one of his/her decisions made in office. That applies to the legal system too and you have corruption there where people can buy a judgment. Stars and starlets have a very good chance of being let off for things a commoner would pay fines or jail time for. A jury could be partial to how a lawyer sells his clients side of the story. There are people with connections to political officers that can use those connections to get away with things others can't.

This is why America is a good example of one that IS just. Lets keep in mind that just doesn't mean perfect. I get the whole OWS thing and I get how lots of decisions are really bad but you have a bicamarel legislature. You have checks and balances. You have like people said before that there are tons of investigations on anybody holding a public office. You have audits for companies that might be doing shady crap like JPMorgan or Enron and they will get caught. All those corrupt companies that were getting away with tons of other peoples money they got caught and their companies were sent into bankruptcy. Every decision that Obama makes has to be approved by the people then by Congress then signed then checked by Congress again. No other country can say they have all that and that's where corruption can leak through the cracks.

Taiwan is a special case. Its current govt is a govt in exile that was psychotically driven by some guy that couldnt' be a graceful loser and went on a "take back the mainland" free fall. It takes alot of effort to come back from that but they are still taking the steps. The Taiwan today is alot less corrupt than it used to be minus the off change self-shooting pity vote and embezzlement scandals. President Ma is doing alot of good in his two terms so far.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby Gao Bohan » 11 Jul 2012, 23:44

Dog's_Breakfast wrote:
Gao Bohan wrote:But my perspective on the American justice system is that is generally fair and objective. Laws and regulations, particularly in the criminal arena, are rigorously enforced. Even at the national level, congressmen, senators, and governors are routinely investigated and when crime is discovered, prosecuted and imprisoned. There are, I believe, two former governors and several congressmen currently incarcerated in federal penitentiaries. Criminals running the gamut from petty thieves to rich and powerful inside traders are made to serve their time.


I hate to say this, but I think you're living in a former era. Things have changed. You need to pay attention to what the whole Occupy Wall Street movement was about.

I could give you lots of links, but I'll start with one article:
Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

And one video:
Bill Black @Occupy Wall Street

Let me know if you want more to read/watch more. I've got plenty of links.


Lots of claims in that Rolling Stone article about fraud and other crimes. The reality is that much of those investments/sales were legal, however catastrophic they proved to be for the economy and society. The federal judiciary is relentless in prosecuting actual crimes, including those perpetuated by governors, senators, congressmen, etc. I stand by my assertion that the American legal system is overall quite just.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby Mucha Man » 12 Jul 2012, 00:12

You are right gao that most of the actions of Wall Street were legal: but that is only because WS has been writing the rules. But oerall, yes, I would say the US system is just and does prosecute real crimes at all levels.

Taiwan, no. The prosecutors office is highly biased and political. During the presidential election the Finance Minister's office forged documents to show that Tsai Ying Wen had been involved with a company that was receiving government investment funds when she was still working for the government. It was so obviously a case of fraud but there has been no serious investigation to date. This is Watergate stuff here but nothing is being done.

Down on the east coast there is a case of a hotel owned by a large taipei based group that has been ordered by the high court to cease construction as their environmental assessment was flawed and illegal. The county government just ignores the court and re-issues licenses and uses the local police to enforce their decision and intimidate protesters.

Most recently we had the Miyako case where a minor TV star and her japanese gangster boyfriend almost beat a taxi driver to death. They got off without jail time because they seemed sorry and have compensation to the victim.

These are just dozens if not hundreds of cases you hear of each year where justice is not done, is perversely handled, or cannot be done because the courts have no power to force local governments. Add to this the lack of effective policing and the frequent use of police to enforce economic development in local areas and you have a serious problem.

It's better than China, but the reforms that started in 2001-02 under the DPP were then stalled by the KMT dominated legislative and under Ma nothing has been done but useless piecemeal efforts.

As with most things these days, Taiwan's justice system is at least a decade behind in its development., and is showing bizarre cracks such as the new fad of judges enforcing public insultment laws. Zla'od gives a good summary of some of the overall problems.

This place is a mess in so many ways.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby Betelnut » 31 Jul 2012, 20:33

Judicial reforms stalled by the KMT dominated legislature?

Is there anything new that can be said that actually makes sense? How does having the majority in the legislature bar judicial reform.

The prosecutors and judges can be biased both ways. It just depends on the prosecutor.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby urodacus » 31 Jul 2012, 21:41

The Taiwanese Justice System is Just ... lamentable, risible, corrupt, farcical, ineffective, self-serving, comic, etc.


Thanks for starting the thread off in such an easy way to answer.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby atreyue » 12 Nov 2012, 17:48

This JUST happened to me. I parked my motorcycle on a lonely lane, alone with nothing around it this morning. When I came out this afternoon I found a white van backed into it, bumper still attached to my bike. Now, normally this is quite a usual occurrence in Taipei, hence why I found a lonely spot to park my new, unmarked scooter.

Well, lo and behold, the right side of my motorcycle got etched and scratched. Of course, I called the police.

That was my first mistake. When the police came they did a lot of hand wringing and measuring and photographing things, when the owner of the van showed up they broke into a friendly banter, the van owner called her son - he came over to join the fray. Long story short, the police said that because there was no "witness" to the damage of my motorcycle ( did I mention the motorcycle still had the white flecks of the van's paint still attached?) there was nothing they could do - her word against mine.

Of course they said I had all the opportunities to pursue this as a civil matter through the court system. When I protested, the son spoke up and said (direct quote) "This is Taiwan, M***** F*****!" (Obviously schooled in The States)

Lesson learned: inept police.
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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby finley » 12 Nov 2012, 17:57

atreyue wrote:Lesson learned: inept police.

On the contrary, they were very ept. They avoided a whole shitload of work and got their brother's cousin's son-in-law (bet you a can of Taiwan beer they were related) off the hook. Re-SULT!

"This is Taiwan, M***** F*****!" (Obviously schooled in The States)

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Re: Is The Taiwanese Justice System Just?

Postby cfimages » 12 Nov 2012, 18:10

You could sue him for public insult (or whatever they officially call it) for the motherfucker line. :mrgreen:

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