Conspiracy discussion about 2004 Chen Shui-bian shooting

Topics related to Taiwan and Taiwan/China issues can be discussed here. Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, please send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Moderator: TheGingerMan

Forum rules
Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, you can send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby TainanCowboy » 31 Jan 2012, 16:58

the bear wrote:
TainanCowboy wrote:I thought this thread was abut Mikey Turton?
Re: Dr. Lee..he came...he investigated...the results of his investigation were suppressed.
He has REFUSED further comment on what he found.
Please elucidate on the suppression of Dr Lee's investigation results. First I've heard of it.

Find Dr. Lee's initial presentation of his investigation.
Now find any follow-up statements, or elaborations from him re: his investigation.
"Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --- "Caesar and Cleopatra"...G.B. Shaw
-----
Kid Rock - Born Free
-----
"The big sisters are usually hot, but the dads smell of alcohol and tobacco....and have dirty feet with dead toe nails in blue slippers. "...Bob_Honest on "The Culture"
------
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
------
Isaiah 40:31
Forumosan avatar
TainanCowboy
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16234
Joined: 18 Jun 2004, 17:50
Location: Tainan - The Original Taiwan
103 Recommends(s)
49 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby Fox » 31 Jan 2012, 17:04

TainanCowboy wrote:
Fox wrote:
Ah Bian shoot-up...a scam...but it worked.

Not as successful as the scam that got Chen locked up.

Yeah...right...OK...Hey, listen....I have a bridge down here for sale.
Goes right over to the mainland. You can make a fortune on tolls.

Can I put you down as an investor in it?


The ruling states that as president, Chen should have known that “if one person in power developed a greed for the people’s money, the entire country would devolve into chaos.”


That's the line which stuck with me the most. In Taiwan?! That statement would be enough to make Gordon Gekko blush. Everyone knows Chen was railroaded for doing what every politician in the country had been doing. Which ones of them haven't pocketed their campaign finance money? What is campaign finance money if it isn't a bribe? Look at the US, politicians still pocket it to this day.

The latest scam in America, is to use campaign finance money to buy your own products e.g., the book you are selling to launch your campaign etc.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/herman-cain-mitt-romney-campaign-funds_n_1017568.html

Your buddies are among the worst offenders.

You were crazy to buy that bridge without having anyone to offload it to.
"When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her." Wilde

"I don't know where the sun beams end and the star light begins. It's all a mystery." Flaming Lips

"a man's position here is not ruled so much by what he can earn as by what he can owe and still remain at large." Letters of a Shanghai Griffin

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.
redbubble
http://www.planetediting.com
Forumosan avatar
Fox
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
 
Posts: 5562
Joined: 11 Jun 2002, 16:01
Location: Taipei
59 Recommends(s)
78 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby TainanCowboy » 31 Jan 2012, 17:09

FOX -
LOL...so when is the Ah Bian team gonna return all of their stolen money?
"Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --- "Caesar and Cleopatra"...G.B. Shaw
-----
Kid Rock - Born Free
-----
"The big sisters are usually hot, but the dads smell of alcohol and tobacco....and have dirty feet with dead toe nails in blue slippers. "...Bob_Honest on "The Culture"
------
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
------
Isaiah 40:31
Forumosan avatar
TainanCowboy
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16234
Joined: 18 Jun 2004, 17:50
Location: Tainan - The Original Taiwan
103 Recommends(s)
49 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby headhonchoII » 31 Jan 2012, 17:32

@Betelnut- I don't fully support that story you have woven as it is too complicated, I prefer the simple use low calibre bullet one shooter approach and keep it between a very select few people. You tend to have good knowledge of things but I think your conclusions can also be led by wishful thinking and a certain bias. You've got Annette Lu, bodyguards, large numbers of police, many detectives all working together actively to hid the truth. They pulled it off. Nobody talked.

I agree that the suicide was suspicious though.

@Fox- I agree Chen was shafted in some respects when you understand how corrupt most politicians are here, however as President he shouldn't have tried to pocket so much cash and then he couldn't have been shafted. His jail sentence was too severe in my opinion though.
I can remember the fourth of July runnin' through the backwood bare.
And I can still hear my old hound dog barkin' chasin' down a hoodoo there
Chasin' down a hoodoo there.
headhonchoII
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12317
Joined: 26 Aug 2002, 10:40
Location: Taipei
1545 Recommends(s)
566 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby the bear » 31 Jan 2012, 17:41

TainanCowboy wrote:
the bear wrote:
TainanCowboy wrote:I thought this thread was abut Mikey Turton?
Re: Dr. Lee..he came...he investigated...the results of his investigation were suppressed.
He has REFUSED further comment on what he found.
Please elucidate on the suppression of Dr Lee's investigation results. First I've heard of it.

Find Dr. Lee's initial presentation of his investigation.
Now find any follow-up statements, or elaborations from him re: his investigation.


I'm far too busy surfing porn.........how's bout you find it?
I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more specific.
Forumosan avatar
the bear
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
 
Posts: 3768
ORIGINAL POSTER
Joined: 14 Jul 2003, 14:45
Location: Taipei City
27 Recommends(s)
100 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby Fox » 31 Jan 2012, 18:01

TainanCowboy wrote:FOX -
LOL...so when is the Ah Bian team gonna return all of their stolen money?


When Sinopac goes bankrupt, and Lien Chan apologizes for stealing peasants' land for his rezoning scams.
"When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her." Wilde

"I don't know where the sun beams end and the star light begins. It's all a mystery." Flaming Lips

"a man's position here is not ruled so much by what he can earn as by what he can owe and still remain at large." Letters of a Shanghai Griffin

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.
redbubble
http://www.planetediting.com
Forumosan avatar
Fox
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
 
Posts: 5562
Joined: 11 Jun 2002, 16:01
Location: Taipei
59 Recommends(s)
78 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby Dog's_Breakfast » 31 Jan 2012, 20:42

I'll start off by saying that I don't really know if Chen staged this or not. It's not like I've got proof one way or the other in my back pocket. So anything I say from here on is speculation...

Chen Shuibian is/was the kind of person who would pull something like this. Of that I have no doubt. The big problem with a staged shooting is that he'd need accomplices, and that makes it hard. If just one accomplice blows the whistle, the whole plan is foiled and indeed will backfire.

I already said I don't think Annette Lu is a lying scum-bucket like Ah-Bien, so it's a little hard for me to believe she was in on it. Technically, I think it would have been possible to remote trigger a device under the dashboard to shoot her with some light projectile to make that minor wound she suffered. And that would explain the 90-degree turn that a bullet fired from the street would have had to make. But again, there would have to be an accomplice - Ah-Bien himself couldn't have planted the device, so if it was done, it would require some technically competent person with access who would keep his mouth shut. And again, that begins to sound a bit far-fetched - something from Mission Impossible.

As for Ah-Bien's stomach wound, the easiest conspiratorial method would be for the surgeon to have made it at the hospital. No need for a bullet. There was a lot of suspicion at the time why Chen wasn't taken to nearby Chenggong University Hospital (which is the best in Tainan City) but rather to another hospital 7km away and owned by a good friend of his. Of course, you've got to find a surgeon willing to go along with this, so there's another accomplice.

To me, the most suspicious things about the whole incident was how amazingly good the shooter was (if there was a shooter). Anyone here ever fired a pistol? At two targets in a moving vehicle? With the pistol hidden in your pocket or under a newspaper, rather than holding it at eye level? And managed to hit both targets, all with nobody noticing? Just amazing. I have trouble hitting those stationery cardboard cutouts from 30 feet (less than 10 meters) even when I have time to aim and use both hands. And to top it off, the alleged weapon was some homemade crap zip gun rather than a professional pistol like a Glock or Beretta. That shooter must have been like Antonio Banderas in Desperado.

The other suspicious thing is, like already mentioned, Ah-Bien walking from the jeep into the emergency room. I've never been shot, but I've been in some motorcycle accidents and brought to the emergency room - you just don't hop out of the car and walk after something like that. You let them put you on the wheeled stretcher and bring you inside. Even if the wounds later turn out to be relatively benign, you just don't know that when you've arrived at the hospital - you're hurt, bleeding, in shock, you wait and let the staff take care of you. Of course, if you knew in advance that your wounds (if any) were only superficial, you can walk and flash a V-for-victory sign.

My conclusion - I still don't know. Either it was staged by Ah-Bien and a circle of co-conspirators who have all managed to keep their mouths shut, or we have one very lucky shooter and Ah-Bien was so obsessed with electoral fever that he wasn't fazed even by a bullet wound. Make of that what you will.

cheers,
DB
Welcome to the Hotel Forumosa. You can login anytime you like, but you can never leave.
Forumosan avatar
Dog's_Breakfast
Eldest Grandchild (zhǎngsūn)
Eldest Grandchild (zhǎngsūn)
 
Posts: 1199
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:32
59 Recognized(s)



Conspiracy discussion about 2004 Chen Shui-bian shooting

Postby headhonchoII » 31 Jan 2012, 21:00

Last bit, ever see the video how Ronald Reagan actually walked after being shot ?He almost died right after that.
I can remember the fourth of July runnin' through the backwood bare.
And I can still hear my old hound dog barkin' chasin' down a hoodoo there
Chasin' down a hoodoo there.
headhonchoII
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12317
Joined: 26 Aug 2002, 10:40
Location: Taipei
1545 Recommends(s)
566 Recognized(s)



Re: Is Michael Turton worth following?

Postby Mucha Man » 31 Jan 2012, 21:15

Dog's_Breakfast wrote:To me, the most suspicious things about the whole incident was how amazingly good the shooter was (if there was a shooter)...


Amazingly good? He shot the windshield and the bullets were deflected into their targets. Yeah, great shot. Aim at the window. :roflmao:

Here's the wiki pic just a few minutes before the shots. Notice the ample amount of target above the window? :lol:

Image
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
Forumosan avatar
Mucha Man
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 18322
Joined: 01 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: Mucha, of course
728 Recognized(s)



Conspiracy discussion about 2004 Chen Shui-bian shooting

Postby headhonchoII » 31 Jan 2012, 21:20

The bullet(s) could have ricocheted or fragmented into pieces or the glass could also have cut Lu. Where is Henry Lu again?
I can remember the fourth of July runnin' through the backwood bare.
And I can still hear my old hound dog barkin' chasin' down a hoodoo there
Chasin' down a hoodoo there.
headhonchoII
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12317
Joined: 26 Aug 2002, 10:40
Location: Taipei
1545 Recommends(s)
566 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Proceed to Taiwan Politics



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: Taiwanguy and 4 visitors

Many people take no care of their money till they come nearly to the end of it, and others do just the same with their time -- JOHANN VON GOETHE