Taiwan is Not Part of China

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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Isha » 22 Mar 2012, 21:11

Rotalsnart wrote:Perhaps some here are not interested in the technical aspects of this, but for those who are, here's an excerpt from an article by Attorney Yulan Kuo published in Intellectual Asset Management Magazine, which clearly explains how Taiwan and China are independent jurisdictions in international IP practice:

"Taiwan’s government and China’s government have respective political power over the patent applications filed in their own territory. A patent application granted in China cannot be enforced in Taiwan. In addition, China and Taiwan do not admit priority right for each others’ patent application (even though both are members of the WTO). Thus, an applicant that files a patent application in Taiwan is unable to claim priority based on his Taiwan’s patent application when he subsequently files the corresponding application in China, and vise versa. In order to keep the benefit of the earliest filing date, it is necessary to respectively file patent applications in Taiwan and in China especially when an applicant chooses Taiwan or China as the first filing country for his global patent prosecution."


Yes, that's correct. It is same on TIPO as well as WIPO website. It would be better for both to recognize each other's priority dates but I guess that will interfere in back door business. BTW WTO too does not recognize Taiwan as a country. I believe it is safe to say that Taiwan is not part of China but it is not a free country either.
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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Tigerman » 22 Mar 2012, 21:19

Isha wrote:I believe it is safe to say that Taiwan is not part of China but it is not a free country either.


Of course Taiwan is a free country. Being free is not dependent on what other people think.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Isha » 22 Mar 2012, 21:37

Tigerman wrote:
Isha wrote:I believe it is safe to say that Taiwan is not part of China but it is not a free country either.


Of course Taiwan is a free country. Being free is not dependent on what other people think.


Refining the statement: Taiwan is not considered a free country as far as important issues of International matters are concerned.
Is that better?
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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Tigerman » 22 Mar 2012, 22:19

Isha wrote:Refining the statement: Taiwan is not considered a free country as far as important issues of International matters are concerned.
Is that better?


No. You are still wrong. Being recognized as a country has nothing to do with actually being free. Sure, China can pressure other countries as to how they deal with or relate to Taiwan, but, that doesn't make Taiwan not free.

What international matters are you referring to? UN? WHO? WIPO? Those are international organizations. Taiwan does not participate in those, but, Taiwan certainly conducts its own affairs freely and certainly deals with other countries according to the way that Taiwan wishes to deal with them. How is Taiwan not free?

And Rotalsnart is absolutely correct about Taiwan having its own, separate IP regime. In fact, Taiwan's IP regime is the oldest in East Asia.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Isha » 22 Mar 2012, 22:31

Tigerman wrote:
Isha wrote:Refining the statement: Taiwan is not considered a free country as far as important issues of International matters are concerned.
Is that better?


No. You are still wrong. Being recognized as a country has nothing to do with actually being free. Sure, China can pressure other countries as to how they deal with or relate to Taiwan, but, that doesn't make Taiwan not free.

What international matters are you referring to? UN? WHO? WIPO? Those are international organizations. Taiwan does not participate in those, but, Taiwan certainly conducts its own affairs freely and certainly deals with other countries according to the way that Taiwan wishes to deal with them. How is Taiwan not free?

And Rotalsnart is absolutely correct about Taiwan having its own, separate IP regime. In fact, Taiwan's IP regime is the oldest in East Asia.


Yes, Taiwan's internal IPO is one of the oldest.
Taiwan in itself is a free country but when it comes to be recognized internationally, it is not. This is a fact and we need to accept and move on.
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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Tigerman » 22 Mar 2012, 22:46

Isha wrote:Yes, Taiwan's internal IPO is one of the oldest.


What do you mean by internal? Virtually all nations have an intellectual property office. How is Taiwan's IPO any different from any other nation's IPO?

Isha wrote:Taiwan in itself is a free country...


Yes, it is. Thank you.

Isha wrote:...but when it comes to be recognized internationally, it is not. This is a fact and we need to accept and move on.


Move on to where? Again, not being recognized by some other countries doesn't make Taiwan not free. In fact, I'd say that those countries that do not recognize Taiwan due to pressure from China are the countries that are less free.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Isha » 22 Mar 2012, 23:04

Tigerman wrote:
What do you mean by internal? Virtually all nations have an intellectual property office. How is Taiwan's IPO any different from any other nation's IPO?

Isha wrote:Taiwan in itself is a free country...


Yes, it is. Thank you.

Move on to where? Again, not being recognized by some other countries doesn't make Taiwan not free. In fact, I'd say that those countries that do not recognize Taiwan due to pressure from China are the countries that are less free.


Internal because Taiwan's priority dates are not recognized.

I am sure many will argue about the Taiwan's internal system being influenced by China. We can say whatever we want or feel but reality is the reality.
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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Tigerman » 22 Mar 2012, 23:11

Isha wrote:I am sure many will argue about the Taiwan's internal system being influenced by China. We can say whatever we want or feel but reality is the reality.


What do you mean? You used the word internal to describe Taiwan's Intellectual Property Office. Now you are saying that Taiwan's internal system is influenced by China.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm just wondering what you are talking about. I work in IP and have for many years here in Taiwan. Taiwan's IPO is not part of or otherwise affiliated with China, in any way. I have clients who seek to register various IP and they often do in both Taiwan and China, because they have to, if they want protection in both places. Patent and trademark rights are limited by geography, and both Taiwan and China administer these types of IP separately from and independently of each other.

So, I am puzzled by your assertion that Taiwan's internal [IPO?] is influenced by China. :ponder:
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Tigerman » 22 Mar 2012, 23:14

Isha wrote:Internal because Taiwan's priority dates are not recognized.


Not recognized by China? Or by other nations? Taiwan is a member of the WTO and we frequently claim priority from earlier-filed Taiwan applications when filing for trademark registration in other countries.

And even if other countries do not recognize priority claims from Taiwan (but all WTO member nations do recognize priority claims from Taiwan for trademark filings), that doesn't make Taiwan not free.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

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Re: Taiwan is Not Part of China

Postby Isha » 22 Mar 2012, 23:50

Tigerman wrote:
Isha wrote:Internal because Taiwan's priority dates are not recognized.


Not recognized by China? Or by other nations? Taiwan is a member of the WTO and we frequently claim priority from earlier-filed Taiwan applications when filing for trademark registration in other countries.

And even if other countries do not recognize priority claims from Taiwan (but all WTO member nations do recognize priority claims from Taiwan for trademark filings), that doesn't make Taiwan not free.


If you are dealing with WTO then you would know that WTO did not include Taiwan as a country. The fact that Taiwan accepted it's current position in WTO shows that they don't care enough about the status. Anyways, it seems you are emotional about this issue and I respect that. We are not the one to decide whether Taiwan is a free country or not. We can think and say whatever we want but it doesn't matter.
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