which taiwan political party do you side with?

Topics related to Taiwan and Taiwan/China issues can be discussed here. Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, please send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Moderator: TheGingerMan

Forum rules
Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, you can send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

which do you side with?

KMT
6
27%
DPP
11
50%
other (explain your ideology and why the 2 main political parties fails to meet it)
5
23%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby Betelnut » 11 May 2012, 23:58

These forum's views are pretty straightforward.

You've got mostly Westerners that are extremely anti-KMT and hate them and all mainlanders from the post WW2 age with a passion and take all the DPP or green's historical perspectives to heart because they identify with their so-called democratic values and take the ethnic politics of everything being done the Minnan and non pan-Chinese way of doing things. Of course it doesn't hurt that this path for Taiwan also fits well into the Western imperialist strategy of keeping China and its so-called territories divided and weakened for the sake of maintaining Western dominance in the Far East region.

Then there's supposedly neutral foreigners that are supposedly extremely neutral and but they are basically still generally green although try a little harder to seem neutral. They generally don't have as much ammunition in terms of stories about how everyone who crossed the street back in the day and got hit by a car must have been a victim of political persecution like former first lady Wu Shu-Zhen who was run over MULTIPLE times by a "KMT hit-man" who drove an awkward vehicle and claimed profusely to be a Chen Shui-Bian supporter. The high ammunition crowd will talk about that incident without quoting the details of the case like CSB dropping the case afterwards or the fact that the election was already over when the accident happened. They also won't mention if they even know that the CSB faked a tea poisoning incident just before a debate for the '85 Tainan County Commissioner election which he lost.

Then there's a small group of foreigners here who actually see the DPP for what it is. They tend to have some keen perspectives but they get chastised because they aren't anti-KMT enough. They are not necessarily pro-KMT, but because they point out holes in logic and stuff, they got snowballs thrown at them.

As for me, I must be getting paid by the Chinese Communist Party for having so much time on my hands to post here on a forum in English for Westerners to hopefully figure a few things out before they get brainwashed at Chili's on Thursday evening when the foreign reporters meet up for drinks and talk about how the items in the National Palace Museum (but not the gold reserves from Shanghai) should be returned to China because the Taiwan Independence movement they fully stand by isn't about "stealing" from China or something so they want to see like they are on the morale high ground by talking about returning Qing dynasty artifacts that aren't Taiwanese anyway.

Posting here can be like "Mission Impossible" because if you quote anything that makes sense, it's from a pro-China or pro-KMT source and should therefore be disregarded. So if 1+1 = 2 is stated but it doesn't support the green, then it's from a KMT/CCP source. But if 1+1 = 3 and it means the KMT is bad, then it makes sense.
Betelnut
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 296
Joined: 20 Apr 2005, 09:11
10 Recognized(s)



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby TheGingerMan » 12 May 2012, 07:15

And there are the rest of us who couldn't give a toss either way.
"Turne ye to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope,
even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee:"

~~~ZECHARIAH 9:12

"Or fill high hawkfell of my hand,
with skalds reward for skilled word?"

~~~Egill Skallagrimssøn, c.974


"Opinion is underrated since it is too difficult for most and not understood by the rest."
~~~elektronisk
Forumosan avatar
TheGingerMan
Bureaucrat of the Underworld (cóng dìyù lái de guānliáo)
Bureaucrat of the Underworld (cóng dìyù lái de guānliáo)
 
Posts: 7790
Joined: 29 Aug 2005, 00:38
Location: The Thin Edge Of The Wedge
4 Recommends(s)
245 Recognized(s)
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-2114
Gruntleness: Fully Disgruntled



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby Dog's_Breakfast » 12 May 2012, 09:57

Betelnut, your analysis was pretty accurate, but I'd like to add that a factor that pushes a lot of westerners into the Green camp is the newspaper they read - The Taipei Times - which might as well be renamed The DPP Times. Offsetting that would be The China Post except that I think hardly anyone besides short-term tourists and students learning English actually read it. Between the two papers, I actually find the China Post slightly less biased, but that's probably because it's almost entirely bland wire-service news with the occasional hit-piece against the DPP on the editorial page - their bias is more in what they don't publish rather than what they do. The Taipei Times, by contrast, is actually much better written and more interesting, but it's blatant anti-KMT and anti-China throughout right down to which letters to the editor they will publish (half of which seem to be written by Charles Hong of Columbus, Ohio - I wonder if he owns the newspaper, or maybe his parents do).

Anyway, my point is that people are easily persuaded by newspaper propaganda. That's hardly unique to Taiwan. I think of Fox News and AM hate-talk radio (ie Rush Limbaugh) in the USA, both of which outdo the old Pravda ("Truth" in Russian) in the now extinct USSR. The much-ballyhooed "free press" in the USA is actually quite pathetic, which tempers my criticism of Taiwan's mostly ridiculous news media.
Welcome to the Hotel Forumosa. You can login anytime you like, but you can never leave.
Forumosan avatar
Dog's_Breakfast
Street Dog Chaser (zhuīgǎn liúlàng gǒu)
Street Dog Chaser (zhuīgǎn liúlàng gǒu)
 
Posts: 1237
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:32
66 Recognized(s)



which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby headhonchoII » 12 May 2012, 10:50

If the KMT gave up talking about Taiwan equalling China and stopped paying off the soldiers and government officials with special deals, apologized properly for their former crimes, prosecuted their corrupt officials equally, returned all stolen property back to people in Taiwan and stopped constantly favoring big and polluting businesses and promoted more environmental protection then they would get more support.
And yes I don't think the DPP as it stands is a great alternative either.
I can remember the fourth of July runnin' through the backwood bare.
And I can still hear my old hound dog barkin' chasin' down a hoodoo there
Chasin' down a hoodoo there.
headhonchoII
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12768
Joined: 26 Aug 2002, 10:40
Location: Taipei
1782 Recommends(s)
638 Recognized(s)



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby Feiren » 12 May 2012, 14:50

On the contrary, I think the Taipei Times and its propagandizing turns off a lot of foreigners.

Before the Taipei Times, the China News was owned by the KMT and the China Post was reliable for its rabid blue New Party propaganda. Between the two of them, they managed to turn most foreigners green. Then the Taipei Times came a long and its pro-green propaganda began turning foreigners blue.

Plus the large numbers of foreigners influenced by their WSR significant others and teachers.


Dog's_Breakfast wrote:Betelnut, your analysis was pretty accurate, but I'd like to add that a factor that pushes a lot of westerners into the Green camp is the newspaper they read - The Taipei Times - which might as well be renamed The DPP Times. Offsetting that would be The China Post except that I think hardly anyone besides short-term tourists and students learning English actually read it. Between the two papers, I actually find the China Post slightly less biased, but that's probably because it's almost entirely bland wire-service news with the occasional hit-piece against the DPP on the editorial page - their bias is more in what they don't publish rather than what they do. The Taipei Times, by contrast, is actually much better written and more interesting, but it's blatant anti-KMT and anti-China throughout right down to which letters to the editor they will publish (half of which seem to be written by Charles Hong of Columbus, Ohio - I wonder if he owns the newspaper, or maybe his parents do).

Anyway, my point is that people are easily persuaded by newspaper propaganda. That's hardly unique to Taiwan. I think of Fox News and AM hate-talk radio (ie Rush Limbaugh) in the USA, both of which outdo the old Pravda ("Truth" in Russian) in the now extinct USSR. The much-ballyhooed "free press" in the USA is actually quite pathetic, which tempers my criticism of Taiwan's mostly ridiculous news media.
Feiren
Former City Mayor (qiánrèn shìzhǎng)
Former City Mayor (qiánrèn shìzhǎng)
 
Posts: 4913
Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 17:01
Location: Drum Tower
4 Recommends(s)
204 Recognized(s)



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby Teddoman » 12 May 2012, 21:07

As a former China Post journalist, I can affirmatively say that it was just a bunch of underpaid foreigners and locals, just like any other place in Taiwan. There was no monolithic viewpoint there or conspiratorial ownership. I think the ownership thought more about selling ads than they did about their op eds. Though I wasn't on the op ed side of it, I wouldn't be surprised if it was left in the hands of one of the foreign editors (who was probably just some foreign dude who had been here for a while).

When I was there, we had one computer for Internet access in the late 90s...for the entire newspaper staff! Maybe it's changed, but that's how it was back then.

The whole Chen Shui Bian thing must really have taken the wind out of Taiwan politics. Taiwan finally frees itself of the grasp of KMT control for the first time in a democratic change of control, a native Taiwanese comes to power, his credentials as a leader of the protest movement are impeccable, there's a burgeoning sense of pride in all things Taiwanese, Chen Shui Bian embodies and represents pretty much all of this...and then the corruption scandal
Teddoman
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 261
Joined: 03 Jan 2005, 00:31
12 Recommends(s)
10 Recognized(s)



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby Chris » 12 May 2012, 21:33

For being on the supposed "left" side of the political spectrum, I found the DPP to be too puritanical, too xenophobic and too Hoklo-supremist. They were also overly obsessed with changing the names of things, and anything CKS was fair game for targeting, including the CKS Memorial Hall. I also found them to go too far for comfort on the Taiwan Independence movement.

They do have a very good record on the environment, though. Some of their ideas in 本地化 (localization) were good (like actually teaching the history of Taiwan in class, and introducing local/indigenous language instruction), but others were bad (like Tongyong Pinyin).

The DPP had so much potential to be a force for positive change, but they squandered it.
Forumosan avatar
Chris
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 15012
Joined: 08 Jun 2004, 15:51
Location: Type-A, Tie-one-on
91 Recommends(s)
203 Recognized(s)



which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby headhonchoII » 12 May 2012, 21:42

100% agree Chris, the DPP blew it, they just concentrated on Minnan peoples votes, pissed off Taiwan's only real ally the US, dipped their hand in the honey jar too obviously and yes futiley riled up the whole independence thing when Taiwanese had so many other issues that needed dealing with.
They did some good things, won a few battles but lost the war.
If they had introduced better social welfare , working conditions or education that would have been huge, but their policies in these key areas hardly differed from the other side beyond soundbites of Taiwanisation which while ultimately necessary seemed to become their whole focus from the get go.

CSB was a terrible leader in many ways.

It's true many foreigners used to be avidly green but anybody who has been around a while has probably become too cynical to declare for either side fully.
I can remember the fourth of July runnin' through the backwood bare.
And I can still hear my old hound dog barkin' chasin' down a hoodoo there
Chasin' down a hoodoo there.
headhonchoII
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12768
Joined: 26 Aug 2002, 10:40
Location: Taipei
1782 Recommends(s)
638 Recognized(s)



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby TheGingerMan » 12 May 2012, 22:04

Chris wrote:For being on the supposed "left" side of the political spectrum, I found the DPP to be too puritanical, too xenophobic and too Hoklo-supremist. They were also overly obsessed with changing the names of things, and anything CKS was fair game for targeting, including the CKS Memorial Hall. I also found them to go too far for comfort on the Taiwan Independence movement.


To say nothing about what they did to the schedule of holidays, especially those that fell in the fall.
:fume:
"Turne ye to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope,
even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee:"

~~~ZECHARIAH 9:12

"Or fill high hawkfell of my hand,
with skalds reward for skilled word?"

~~~Egill Skallagrimssøn, c.974


"Opinion is underrated since it is too difficult for most and not understood by the rest."
~~~elektronisk
Forumosan avatar
TheGingerMan
Bureaucrat of the Underworld (cóng dìyù lái de guānliáo)
Bureaucrat of the Underworld (cóng dìyù lái de guānliáo)
 
Posts: 7790
Joined: 29 Aug 2005, 00:38
Location: The Thin Edge Of The Wedge
4 Recommends(s)
245 Recognized(s)
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-2114
Gruntleness: Fully Disgruntled



Re: which taiwan political party do you side with?

Postby fanglangzhe » 12 May 2012, 22:17

headhonchoII wrote:If the KMT gave up talking about Taiwan equalling China and stopped paying off the soldiers and government officials with special deals, apologized properly for their former crimes, prosecuted their corrupt officials equally, returned all stolen property back to people in Taiwan and stopped constantly favoring big and polluting businesses and promoted more environmental protection then they would get more support.
And yes I don't think the DPP as it stands is a great alternative either.


Judging by the last few elections, KMT is more popular than DPP, at least amongst those who can vote.
fanglangzhe
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 209
Joined: 25 Sep 2004, 15:09
3 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Proceed to Taiwan Politics



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 4 visitors

You may delay, but time will not -- BENJAMIN FRANKLIN