Taiwan's "beef" with America

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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby tommy525 » 14 Jun 2012, 23:51

I say IF Ractopamine is banned in western europe but allowed in the USA, then something must be fishy bout that. I say Taiwan can do the USA citizenry a huge favor by getting attention to this fact. And maybe the American people will say, well shit we dont want this ractopamine BS in our beef either !
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby cityathrt » 15 Jun 2012, 00:24

Ah, got it. So it's the usual political antics. I was thinking some legislator had been personally affected by ractopamine, given the silliness that was occuring.

Poagao wrote:It's "far-sighted thinking" on the part of the DPP. If they are successful in blocking the government's efforts now, Taiwan will most likely be unable to participate in trade talks with the US on many
issues, damaging Taiwan's international competitiveness as well as souring relations with the US, which could also have an effect on things like US military spending on Taiwan as well as the US visa waiver timing. By 2016 the effects of this damage could be plain enough that the DPP could point at the KMT and say, "Look at the terrible state of things and how poor a job you've done!" in order to get into power (whereupon the KMT will likely engage in the same tactics).


I think Poagao put it aptly. I caught some moments of President Ma urging everyone to vote for the bill, arguing that the US would have no incentive to talk to Taiwan regarding other trade/political topics if we trashed this bill. I thought it was a well put political point. So much of Taiwan's politics is about posturing and dramatics, it's one of the few things that make me a bit apprehensive of the thought of moving back. No one seems to think beyond the point of flamboyantly throwing down their water cup. Politicians protesting for the sake of protesting, that's a great direction to guide the country down in..

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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby raymondaliasapollyon » 15 Jun 2012, 06:56

tommy525 wrote:I say IF Ractopamine is banned in western europe but allowed in the USA, then something must be fishy bout that. I say Taiwan can do the USA citizenry a huge favor by getting attention to this fact. And maybe the American people will say, well shit we dont want this ractopamine BS in our beef either !


Just curious. Does the typical American dare to buy meat products made from ground beef?
I see most hotdogs and sausages in US supermarkets are made from suspicious ground beef. The real safety issue isn't so much on the chemical used, as on mad cow disease. Wouldn't that pose a significant health threat? Do you have peace of mind when eating beefburgers?
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby Mawvellous » 15 Jun 2012, 08:34

The thing is that they can't block it. If the government can't hold a vote in the LY, the government can simply allow the beef in by signing an executive order. It's all for show.
The question is, what does the DPP do after this?
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby finley » 15 Jun 2012, 11:03

raymondaliasapollyon wrote:
tommy525 wrote:I say IF Ractopamine is banned in western europe but allowed in the USA, then something must be fishy bout that. I say Taiwan can do the USA citizenry a huge favor by getting attention to this fact. And maybe the American people will say, well shit we dont want this ractopamine BS in our beef either !

Just curious. Does the typical American dare to buy meat products made from ground beef?
I see most hotdogs and sausages in US supermarkets are made from suspicious ground beef. The real safety issue isn't so much on the chemical used, as on mad cow disease. Wouldn't that pose a significant health threat? Do you have peace of mind when eating beefburgers?

I get the impression that the American people, in general, are too brainwashed to understand or care what goes into their food. As for hot dogs and burgers ... do you think there's much actual beef in there? Do you think there's even much meat in there? Do you think that's air you're breathing now? Americans are living in The Matrix.

Ractopamine in processed meat products is the least of anyone's worries. Preservatives (nitrates etc), flavourings, bacterial contamination ... take your pick. It's a long list.

Incidentally, I think Tommy is spot-on. This whole issue ought to be a wake-up call for Americans. It's only a relatively trivial thing by itself, but it might end up (eventually) exposing the whole underlying iceberg.
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby tommy525 » 15 Jun 2012, 11:55

yeah honestly I don't think you could find six Americans in california who even know what ractopamine is (hell I had no clue if i wasn't following the debacle in taiwan) , and that we allow it in our beef but its banned elsewhere. All we see is the "passed by dept of agriculture" printed label on the meat and feel its got to be the best ! Cuz we is in America bro, land of the BEST , PERIOD !

(thing is we is in America but not all we get is the best, but we dont know that now do we?)

where'd I read that our American beef is not allowed to even be made into dog food in Australia because of ractopamine?

we got the "pink slime" that they use to process hamburgers for McDonalds, etc. Theres a lot wrong with meat in America.

We got hormone in our chicken, ractopamine in our beef, pink slime in our burgers and now a company has cornered the market for ammonia treated hamburger meat. Wow. Only little is returned for too heavy a smell of ammonia. Apparently its better to be ammonia treated then to take a chance at killer e coli.

I think i should become mainly a vegetarian. Just make sure all the veggies are stir fried tho cuz we have frequent E Coli veggie contamination going on here.
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby Dog's_Breakfast » 15 Jun 2012, 15:13

Although I dislike party politics, I find myself leaning more towards the KMT than the DPP on a lot of issues. The DPP seems to specialize in histrionics over China, the KMT's stolen assets, and anything associated with the name "Ma."

But not this time. I'm solidly with the DPP on this one. Their motives might not be so pure - if Ma was against ractopamine, then the DPP would probably be for it. But no matter - they are on the right side of this issue, and the majority of Taiwanese seem to feel the same. Interestingly, for a change it's not a simple blue vs green issue - the PFP (which is supposed to be in the blue camp) is taking the same position as the DPP, and that is indeed a rare sight.

Why should Taiwan lower its health standards to please America's agribusiness lobby? For that matter, why do Americans accept this shit in their food? Not only ractopamine, but growth hormones in beef and dairy products. I remember a letter in the Taipei Times a couple of months ago by an American saying how unreasonable the Taiwanese (why only the Taiwanese, how about the Europeans?) are being on this issue, and that Americans consume ractopamine and growth hormones without ill effect. Really? Americans are the most obese people in the world, and although some of that is no doubt due to the consumption of super-size helpings of Doritos and Twinkies, I also suspect that growth hormones and ractopamine (designed to fatten cattle) are also fattening the human population.

And what does Taiwan get in return for trashing their health regulations? A pat on the head from the USA. No real promise for a free-trade agreement or anything, just vague talk about holding talks over "trade liberalization." Or that the USA will be more willing to go to war with China (yeah, sure) if Taiwan imports unhealthy American beef.

Just why Ma is so willing to burn up all his political capital for the sake of US agribusiness lobbyists, I can't answer. It just shows how politically inept he really is.
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby finley » 15 Jun 2012, 20:01

Quite so, DB. But behaving like psycho xiaojies and throwing all their toys out of the pram isn't likely to endear them to the thinking voter, even if they are basically right.

No real promise for a free-trade agreement or anything, just vague talk about holding talks over "trade liberalization."

The whole thing reminds me of that Oscar Wilde short story about the miller who gives away all his stuff to his rich "friend" because said friend has promised to (one day in the indeterminate future) lend him a wheelbarrow.
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby Mucha Man » 15 Jun 2012, 20:09

finley wrote:...But behaving like psycho xiaojies and throwing all their toys out of the pram isn't likely to endear them to the thinking voter...


Indeed, but I think they are correct not to focus too much on about 100 voters nationwide. :wink:
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Re: Taiwan's "beef" with America

Postby archylgp » 15 Jun 2012, 20:19

tommy525 wrote:yeah honestly I don't think you could find six Americans in california who even know what ractopamine is (hell I had no clue if i wasn't following the debacle in taiwan) , and that we allow it in our beef but its banned elsewhere. All we see is the "passed by dept of agriculture" printed label on the meat and feel its got to be the best ! Cuz we is in America bro, land of the BEST , PERIOD !

(thing is we is in America but not all we get is the best, but we dont know that now do we?)

where'd I read that our American beef is not allowed to even be made into dog food in Australia because of ractopamine?

we got the "pink slime" that they use to process hamburgers for McDonalds, etc. Theres a lot wrong with meat in America.

We got hormone in our chicken, ractopamine in our beef, pink slime in our burgers and now a company has cornered the market for ammonia treated hamburger meat. Wow. Only little is returned for too heavy a smell of ammonia. Apparently its better to be ammonia treated then to take a chance at killer e coli.

I think i should become mainly a vegetarian. Just make sure all the veggies are stir fried tho cuz we have frequent E Coli veggie contamination going on here.


When I was living in the US, I found that I could go to specialty grocery stores and get organic stuff for surprisingly cheap and usually cheaper than the Safeway if I was buying vegetables.
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