Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

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Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, you can send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Taiwan: independence/reunification or...

Taiwan is a province of China, whose legitimate government is the PRC, and should reunify as soon as possible.
17
5%
Taiwan part of China, but the PRC are usurpers. The ROC should reconquer the Mainland.
17
5%
Taiwan should unify with China once China reforms to become a free democratic country.
24
7%
Taiwan should negotiate with China to have a close relationship, but with as many freedoms as can be agreed upon.
41
11%
Taiwan should seek to maintain the status quo as long as possible.
23
6%
Taiwan is effectively independent, but China prevents this from being formalised. Taiwan should try to slowly and carefully move towards de jure independence.
154
42%
Taiwan should declare independence now.
33
9%
Taiwan should bide its time until the circumstances allow for a referendum for Taiwanese to determine their future.
54
15%
 
Total votes : 363

Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby fanglangzhe » 23 May 2012, 11:07

the bear wrote:There's always the hope of a major regime change though isn't there? People forget that change, when it comes, can often be very rapid and very dramatic i.e. the collapse of the Soviet bloc or the Arab spring. Admittedly the problem in China's case is that the populace itself is violently opposed to the concept of Taiwanese independence. Plus the Taiwanese themselves are too gutless/money obsessed to ever push the issue.


That's exactly right. Even a democratic China would not allow Taiwan to be independent because the Mainland populace itself is against it. And you're right about the Taiwanese as well. It all points to a grim chance for de jure taiwan independence.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby Weinstock » 29 Jun 2012, 04:59

Taiwanese will drift towards the mainland naturally. This is why the west spends so much money supporting separatism. When the west runs out of money, the separatism will die, and the Chinese will unify. Blood is thicker than water, and you can see from the Chinese diaspora that Chinese culture runs deep. You see it in Chinese Americans, Indonesian Chinese, and even Chinese Filipinos. I know a guy who's family has been in Taiwan for 200+ years, and you know what his family grave says? Hunan. Bare in mind, this guy has no connection with Hunan at all, and his family was probably in Hunan 400 years ago, because his family actually came from Guang Dong to Taiwan. Chinese people are not like Americans, who don't even know where their ancestors come from. The minute the west, and Japan releases its choke hold on Taiwan, Taiwanese will do what is natural. If you want independence for Taiwan, first cut ties with the west, and Japan. That's the first step. You can't really call yourself independent if your government is dictated by the west and Japan. Look at all the imports in Taiwan. What does Taiwan even produce these days? Every Japanese import means a reduction in Taiwanese jobs. Stop wasting your money on iphones, and make your own indigenous one. For every Abercrombie, or Roots clothing you buy, you can buy 5 of the same thing that is made by your own compatriots. Stop drinking Starbucks, and support your local bubble tea shop. That's how you achieve independence.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby the bear » 29 Jun 2012, 09:33

Weinstock wrote:Taiwanese will drift towards the mainland naturally. This is why the west spends so much money supporting separatism. When the west runs out of money, the separatism will die, and the Chinese will unify. Blood is thicker than water, and you can see from the Chinese diaspora that Chinese culture runs deep. You see it in Chinese Americans, Indonesian Chinese, and even Chinese Filipinos. I know a guy who's family has been in Taiwan for 200+ years, and you know what his family grave says? Hunan. Bare in mind, this guy has no connection with Hunan at all, and his family was probably in Hunan 400 years ago, because his family actually came from Guang Dong to Taiwan. Chinese people are not like Americans, who don't even know where their ancestors come from. The minute the west, and Japan releases its choke hold on Taiwan, Taiwanese will do what is natural. If you want independence for Taiwan, first cut ties with the west, and Japan. That's the first step. You can't really call yourself independent if your government is dictated by the west and Japan. Look at all the imports in Taiwan. What does Taiwan even produce these days? Every Japanese import means a reduction in Taiwanese jobs. Stop wasting your money on iphones, and make your own indigenous one. For every Abercrombie, or Roots clothing you buy, you can buy 5 of the same thing that is made by your own compatriots. Stop drinking Starbucks, and support your local bubble tea shop. That's how you achieve independence.


blah blah blah..........we got ourselves a Chinese nationalist here and make no mistake. :cactus:
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby printlessfoot » 03 Jul 2012, 15:57

fanglangzhe wrote: .... Even a democratic China would not allow Taiwan to be independent because the Mainland populace itself is against it.

It's USA that does not allow Taiwan to be independent (from the USA occupied territory). Both PRC and ROC know very clearly that they don't have a legal right to have a claim of Taiwan territory.
Set yourself free from the worthless manner of life handed down by your ancestors.

I don't care when or from where one's ancestor arrived in Taiwan. If you were born in Taiwan or Penghu (that is Formosa or Pescadores) and are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stockholder of Taiwan Sovereignty. If you have a family or job here and are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stakeholder of Taiwan Sovereignty.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby tuosi » 10 Oct 2012, 01:57

As I just (6 weeks) started living in Taipei, I think I do not have enough info to have a well-reasoned opinion on this subject.
However, my opinion as an outsider is that Taiwan is behaving as an independent nation at this moment, much more than for example Kosovo was/is (94 nations support its independence).
Is the only reason many people think that Taiwan should not declare independence the threat of a war with the PRC? Is that even realistic?
IMHO, the only thing that China would loose by recognizing Taiwanese independence is their 'pride'. Starting a war would probably result in huge economic losses, a thing valued much higher in 21st century China. This again IMHO.
But maybe because China is gaining more and more power, this would be the perfect moment to declare independence, before it's too late! With 'too late', I mean: before the PRC will have complete power over the world-economy, bigger than NATO or any other group of the traditional leading countries in the world.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby JamescCamp » 01 Nov 2012, 20:47

tuosi wrote:As I just (6 weeks) started living in Taipei, I think I do not have enough info to have a well-reasoned opinion on this subject.
However, my opinion as an outsider is that Taiwan is behaving as an independent nation at this moment, much more than for example Kosovo was/is (94 nations support its independence).
Is the only reason many people think that Taiwan should not declare independence the threat of a war with the PRC? Is that even realistic?
IMHO, the only thing that China would loose by recognizing Taiwanese independence is their 'pride'.
Starting a war would probably result in huge economic losses, a thing valued much higher in 21st century China. This again IMHO.
But maybe because China is gaining more and more power, this would be the perfect moment to declare independence, before it's too late! With 'too late', I mean: before the PRC will have complete power over the world-economy, bigger than NATO or any other group of the traditional leading countries in the world.


That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby hansioux » 01 Nov 2012, 23:49

China is using the Senkaku islands to intimidate Taiwan. If Taiwanese thinks China would go all battleship against Japan for 3 tiny god forsaken uninhabitable islands, think what they'd do to Taiwan. Frankly, I know the KMT and Chiang family would never allowed Taiwan to declare independence, but Taiwan should have done so back in 1996. That was the perfect timing.
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby forealz » 28 May 2013, 10:48

taiwan is independent even if it is not officially recognized on paper. nuff said and case closed. :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby Hokwongwei » 28 May 2013, 14:20

Not if you ask the Philippines. Or the UN. Or any other international organization (WTO and WHO excluded). :D
This is a highly proper signature.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby printlessfoot » 20 Jun 2013, 17:14

Hokwongwei wrote:Not if you ask the Philippines. Or the UN. Or any other international organization (WTO and WHO excluded). :D


You are partially right because Taiwan is still occupied by a bunch of Chinese renegades.
Set yourself free from the worthless manner of life handed down by your ancestors.

I don't care when or from where one's ancestor arrived in Taiwan. If you were born in Taiwan or Penghu (that is Formosa or Pescadores) and are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stockholder of Taiwan Sovereignty. If you have a family or job here and are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stakeholder of Taiwan Sovereignty.
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