Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

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Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, you can send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Taiwan: independence/reunification or...

Taiwan is a province of China, whose legitimate government is the PRC, and should reunify as soon as possible.
17
5%
Taiwan part of China, but the PRC are usurpers. The ROC should reconquer the Mainland.
17
5%
Taiwan should unify with China once China reforms to become a free democratic country.
24
7%
Taiwan should negotiate with China to have a close relationship, but with as many freedoms as can be agreed upon.
41
11%
Taiwan should seek to maintain the status quo as long as possible.
24
7%
Taiwan is effectively independent, but China prevents this from being formalised. Taiwan should try to slowly and carefully move towards de jure independence.
155
42%
Taiwan should declare independence now.
33
9%
Taiwan should bide its time until the circumstances allow for a referendum for Taiwanese to determine their future.
54
15%
 
Total votes : 365

Postby Elegua » 14 Sep 2007, 08:28

just as there is no fundamental reason Austria should not be part of Germany.



:bravo: Anschluss! :roflmao: Let's bring back the concept of Volksdeutsche or in this case Volkschinese?
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Postby mr_boogie » 14 Sep 2007, 12:20

Is there any fundamental reason why the Commonwealth shouldn't come back to UK, then?
Or what about Brazil coming back to Portugal, as well as Cape Verde, Guine Bissau, São Tomé and Principe, Angola, Mozambique, Goa, East Timor, Macau...
The rest of South America to Spain...

Yes, let us all go back to the great Colonial time....


we can all see it coming...

From Wikipedia

"The events of March 12, 1938, marked the culmination of historical cross-national pressures to unify the German populations of Austria and Germany under one nation. However, the 1938 Anschluss, regardless of its popularity, was enacted by Germany. Earlier, Hitlerian Germany had provided support for the Austrian National Socialist Party (Austrian Nazi Party) in its bid to seize power from Austria's Austrofascist leadership. Fully devoted to remaining independent but amidst growing pressures, the chancellor of Austria, Kurt Schuschnigg, tried to hold a plebiscite.

Although he expected Austria to vote in favour of maintaining autonomy, a well-planned internal overthrow by the Austrian Nazi Party of Austria's state institutions in Vienna took place on March 11, prior to the vote. With power quickly transferred over to Germany, the Wehrmacht troops entered Austria to enforce the Anschluss. The Nazis held a plebiscite within the following month, where they received 99.73% of the vote."

Now, let us put this into Taiwan terms...

"The events of March, 2008, marked the culmination of historical cross-national pressures to unify the Chinese populations of China and Taiwan under one nation. However, the 2008 One China, regardless of its popularity, was enacted by China. Earlier, Communist China had provided support for the KMT (Taiwanese Nazi Party) in its bid to seize power from Taiwan's Independist leadership. Fully devoted to remaining independent but amidst growing pressures, the President of Taiwan , Chen Shuibian, tried to hold a plebiscite.

Although he expected Taiwan to vote in favour of maintaining autonomy, a well-planned internal overthrow by the Taiwanese Nazi Party of Taiwan's state institutions in Taipei took place on March, prior to the vote. With power quickly transferred over to China, the PLA troops entered Taiwan to enforce the One China. The Nazis held a plebiscite within the following month, where they received 99.73% of the vote."

What do you think?
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Postby ac_dropout » 14 Sep 2007, 21:38

That answer is basically the European powers can no longer afford to sustain their "empires," all the money is in Asia now, particularly PRC.

The question is basically when will economic condition be such that the PRC can afford unification with impunity, that ROC needs to be really concerned about.
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Postby us investor » 15 Sep 2007, 04:40

Anschluss is and was a perfectly good idea. What's "Austria" in German? "Oesterreich"---Eastern Nation.

Volkschinese! You got it.

The same goes for Arabs. From Morocco to the border of Persia one Nation under Allah, indivisible, etc. Same language, same religion, same climate,... To what extent does any Arab identify as a Carthaginian (Tunisian), Phoenician (Labanese), Syrian, Sumerian (Iraqi),...?

As for the comparison to the UK commonwealth or former colonial empires---it's not a comparison.

The only regions where colonists outnumbered the natives were N. America (including Quebec) and the Antipodes. Taiwan is not small in population, but it is compared to the PRC, and more importantly it's very close to the PRC. Taiwan's secession would be sillier than Hawaii's seceding from the US.

Canadians and Ausies are descended from English, Welsh, Scots, and Irish for the most part, and the UK is itself not a nation-state. It is merely a state.

Wales for the Welsh, England for the English, Scotland for the Scots, just like after 1922 it's been Ireland for the Irish.

And for all the subcontinentals, "Caribs", and Arabs in England, you're making England into "the country formerly known as England".
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Postby mr_boogie » 15 Sep 2007, 18:09

Brazil has more colonists than natives...
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Postby us investor » 16 Sep 2007, 15:34

That's true, but the majority of them aren't colonists in the sense of being from the colonial power, i.e. Portugal. Argentina has almost no native population, but again its population has no more allegiance to Spain than to Italy or Germany. If Argentina were like the Falkland Islands and two thirds of its population were from Spain it would have no more reason for independence than the Falklands which are two thirds British.
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Postby Elegua » 16 Sep 2007, 19:57

Quite while ahead. Please use search functions. topic discussed to death.
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Postby ccpcannonfodder » 21 Nov 2007, 01:49

The question is basically when will economic condition be such that the PRC
can afford unification with impunity, that ROC needs to be really concerned about.

I'm not going to take the time to correct the grammar.
My hope is that if the KMT wins the election they are able to forestall the PLA with the long term plan
- by the time 'we' surrender, capitalism will have taken fascism to democracy,
and pigs will fly!
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Postby X3M » 21 Nov 2007, 02:18

Pigs fly all the time, and the other is just a pipe-dream.
I am a supporter of Taiwan's independence from PRC
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Postby ghostface » 21 Mar 2008, 15:23

'and the UK is itself not a nation-state. It is merely a state.'

Incorrect.

'And for all the subcontinentals, "Caribs", and Arabs in England, you're making England into "the country formerly known as England".'

Not sure I know, or want to, what this means. Caribs? You mean people from the Carribbean, or West Indians I assume. If this wasn't a dead giveaway of your ignorance, the usual schoolboy faux pas transition from UK to England sewed it up.

So the UK is a 'state' (but not a 'nation-state') and England is a country, eh? For a nitpicker, it's impressive how arse about tit you have things.
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