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Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Topics related to Taiwan and Taiwan/China issues can be discussed here. Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, please send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

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Forum rules
Threads dealing with Taiwan's history belong in the Culture & History thread. Please do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. If you see a post that you feel is against the rules, you can send a report to the moderators so we can look into it

Taiwan: independence/reunification or...

Taiwan is a province of China, whose legitimate government is the PRC, and should reunify as soon as possible.
17
5%
Taiwan part of China, but the PRC are usurpers. The ROC should reconquer the Mainland.
17
5%
Taiwan should unify with China once China reforms to become a free democratic country.
24
7%
Taiwan should negotiate with China to have a close relationship, but with as many freedoms as can be agreed upon.
41
11%
Taiwan should seek to maintain the status quo as long as possible.
24
7%
Taiwan is effectively independent, but China prevents this from being formalised. Taiwan should try to slowly and carefully move towards de jure independence.
155
42%
Taiwan should declare independence now.
33
9%
Taiwan should bide its time until the circumstances allow for a referendum for Taiwanese to determine their future.
54
15%
 
Total votes : 365

Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby lincolnunit » 28 Oct 2008, 23:27

LoL, oh! Thank you guys for the explanations, however I was born in Taiwan as well (Neihu), and immigrated to the USA. I just got my citizenship here in the US, but when someone ask me if I'm chinese, I say no, I'm Taiwanese. Would that put me on the same boat as ac drop out?

But nontheless there are many people from Taiwan here in the US and they all are very political when it comes to Taiwan, however the majority of the people here are rich and wealthy and hence, they are KMTS. But we all still get along...as long as politics isn't the subject hehe...
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Re:

Postby X3M » 01 Nov 2008, 08:47

ac_dropout wrote:The only fact that needs to be stressed is the sovereignty issue of ROC can only be resolved with the PRC as an active participant in the discussion.

That is positively wrong.
The moment the goverment on Taiwan changes the constitution to describe the borders of ROC, Taiwan, then PRC is out of the question.
Now, other governments recognise the mainland, and can not accept that PRC and ROC claim the same area.
When the ROC Constitution defines its ares, it can call itself Taiwan, and go to international court with a case - now they are in a limbo.

When that is settled, they can negotiate with PRC
I am a supporter of Taiwan's independence from PRC
- Not a compliment of the above, but most postings are in a drunken haze.
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Re: Re:

Postby Elegua » 01 Nov 2008, 19:09

X3M wrote:
ac_dropout wrote:The only fact that needs to be stressed is the sovereignty issue of ROC can only be resolved with the PRC as an active participant in the discussion.

That is positively wrong.
The moment the goverment on Taiwan changes the constitution to describe the borders of ROC, Taiwan, then PRC is out of the question.
Now, other governments recognise the mainland, and can not accept that PRC and ROC claim the same area.
When the ROC Constitution defines its ares, it can call itself Taiwan, and go to international court with a case - now they are in a limbo.

When that is settled, they can negotiate with PRC


What's your plan when the don't negotiate?
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Re: Re:

Postby lincolnunit » 04 Nov 2008, 01:55

Elegua wrote:
X3M wrote:
ac_dropout wrote:The only fact that needs to be stressed is the sovereignty issue of ROC can only be resolved with the PRC as an active participant in the discussion.

That is positively wrong.
The moment the goverment on Taiwan changes the constitution to describe the borders of ROC, Taiwan, then PRC is out of the question.
Now, other governments recognise the mainland, and can not accept that PRC and ROC claim the same area.
When the ROC Constitution defines its ares, it can call itself Taiwan, and go to international court with a case - now they are in a limbo.

When that is settled, they can negotiate with PRC


What's your plan when the don't negotiate?


Bring out our secret nuclear arsenal and nuke an area of china with no population
:twisted:
And declare independence and if they do not recognize us we nuke em all!
:twisted:
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby Enigma » 14 Aug 2009, 01:21

I see this is back in the news today. As I understood the Taiwan Times report, the Court has asked for further clarification from President Chen. I can not understand why they would want President Chen's opinion.
They specifically asked that he be transported to the U.S. to testify. Highly unlikey in this politcal atmospher. Perhaps a deposition is in order. I have no idea what he could add to clarification of the issue. A ruse? Very strange indeed.
I enjoy contemplating the potential positive outcome with Taiwan becoming a Military Possession of the U.S.
Free elementary and secondary education
A U.S. military Possession Passport
Pell Grants for Uni
Unlimited visa free travel
A vote in the U.S.
S.S. benefits
Food stamps
Welfare benefits

On the other hand:
U.S. taxes
Rules
Regulations
Maybe traffic laws assuming the feds contribute to highway building
Land use laws (for all of you crying about mountain building)
U. S. Selective service rules
Also, Imagine the uproar when the USS Independence docks is Kousuing.
It will be interseting
Wonder if Sonya has balls.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby Poagao » 14 Aug 2009, 01:47

From the story, it sounds like he has "volunteered" to go to Washington and "testify". The court that will hear an eventual appeal after the case was dismissed doesn't seem to know about this, much less have ordered it. Beyond that, saying that he was just following US orders during his presidency is one of the most bizarre things he has done in a long time, and that's saying something, not to mention his statements concerning "the people of Taiwan (not the ‘exiled Chinese’ on Taiwan)".
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby Enigma » 14 Aug 2009, 02:18

I have to admit that I read this story while being jostled around on the MRT and while standing. I understood that the U.S. Supreme Court, while considering certioari (will we look at this issue?) asked the Court of appeals to give more information. That is, the tesitomy of President Chen. I need to find the article again and read it in more depth but, I also know the same issue came up back with Guam. They held there with the same opinion that Mr Lin wants. That is, Guam was a military possesion. I have to admit that I have not researched the history of Guam. I can not think of a country contesting jurisdiction as in the case with Taiwan, but I'm not sure it is a distinction. Your pregnant or you ain't.
I do recall reading, again without reviewing historical records, that in the treaty of Shimonski (I am sure it's mispelled) China gave up Taiwan (Irrevocably - words that were used) to Japan. Of course this was leading up to WWII. After WWII, in, hell, what was it?, about 1950?) Japan "Irrevocably" gave up Taiwan but they did not mention a reciever. Thus, as a conqueror of Japan, all Japanese land at the time of the signing of the Japanese surrender on the USS Missouri, became military conquest of the U.S.
Now, how in the hell does China think they even have a tentative claim on Taiwan? Only bravado! If Mr. Lin is correct, and I think he is, Taiwan is still a U.S. military possession that the U.S. may grant independance, which they have done before, or statehood. (Haven't done that recently, only during the War of Independence).
Alot has been said about President Nixon's change of "Favorite Nation Status from Taiwan to China. Of course, this ousted Taiwan from the U.N. This action was done by Secretary of State, H. Kissenger. Records record that he signed the document while drunk on his ass. Even if effective, the Sec. of State does not have the power to reliquish control of Taiwan to China. That takes an act of Congress. That's why my country has "checks and balances" Kissinger was only signing his "opinion" Congress must vote and they didn't. Sorry, if China didn't recognize this. Better get some Chinese scholors educated.

Now, you historian buffs, check it out. I did no research and am only rattling off the top. But, that's as I see it.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby ludahai » 14 Aug 2009, 09:49

Poagao wrote:From the story, it sounds like he has "volunteered" to go to Washington and "testify". The court that will hear an eventual appeal after the case was dismissed doesn't seem to know about this, much less have ordered it. Beyond that, saying that he was just following US orders during his presidency is one of the most bizarre things he has done in a long time, and that's saying something, not to mention his statements concerning "the people of Taiwan (not the ‘exiled Chinese’ on Taiwan)".


I agree. Very bizarre. Doesn't make any sense really. Is this a ploy of desparation?
I have a dream, a dream where a democratic China lives side by side with Taiwan, Tibet, and Turkestan, all free and democratic.
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby QAM » 14 Aug 2009, 10:19

[quote="Enigma"]Wonder if Sonya has balls.[/quote]

Why only her? Think ya know how the other justices intend to rule if the case is taken up?
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Re: Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?

Postby ludahai » 14 Aug 2009, 11:31

Enigma wrote:I wonder if Sonya has balls.


She doesn't need them. Remember, a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience can often come to a better decision than a white male.
I have a dream, a dream where a democratic China lives side by side with Taiwan, Tibet, and Turkestan, all free and democratic.
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