Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby ludahai » 06 Mar 2009, 20:45

Poagao wrote:
Feiren wrote:Any DPP 'violence' pales compared with the rioting that the KMT indulged in after the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004.


Really? I must have missed that somehow, even though I was there.


Really? Was your head in the sand when Chiu Yi and his thugs were trying to break into the Kaohsiung Courthouse and when the pan-Blue thugs broke into the Central Election Commission and trashed the first floor - among many other acts of violence.
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby Poagao » 06 Mar 2009, 23:09

ludahai wrote:
Poagao wrote:
Feiren wrote:Any DPP 'violence' pales compared with the rioting that the KMT indulged in after the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004.


Really? I must have missed that somehow, even though I was there.


Really? Was your head in the sand when Chiu Yi and his thugs were trying to break into the Kaohsiung Courthouse and when the pan-Blue thugs broke into the Central Election Commission and trashed the first floor - among many other acts of violence.


Yes, it must have been; thanks for noticing!
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby ScottSommers » 07 Mar 2009, 10:10

I'm a little surprised at the direction of the discussion about political violence. None of the recent DPP or KMT violence compares with any of the violence used by the Republicans to suppress slavery or the ANC to overthrow Apartheid. It's hard to compare rioting under martial law where democratic opinion is suppressed and rioting that occurs because of dissatisfaction with democratic results.

But the real problem here seems not be a lack of logic but a strange kind of smugness in some of these posts. It's almost as if logic doesn't matter because 'hay, we're back in power again and we don't have to answer to anyone.' It makes me wonder if you had your way, you wouldn't be rounding people like Feiren just to make the point they're on the wrong side.
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby Poagao » 07 Mar 2009, 10:42

ScottSommers wrote:I'm a little surprised at the direction of the discussion about political violence. None of the recent DPP or KMT violence compares with any of the violence used by the Republicans to suppress slavery or the ANC to overthrow Apartheid. It's hard to compare rioting under martial law where democratic opinion is suppressed and rioting that occurs because of dissatisfaction with democratic results.

But the real problem here seems not be a lack of logic but a strange kind of smugness in some of these posts. It's almost as if logic doesn't matter because 'hay, we're back in power again and we don't have to answer to anyone.' It makes me wonder if you had your way, you wouldn't be rounding people like Ferien just to show make the point they're on the wrong side.


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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby Feiren » 07 Mar 2009, 11:03

He's going to take me dead or alive at an MBR show.
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby mr_boogie » 08 Mar 2009, 07:20

It is easier to say that most foreigners are anti-KMT because they do not profit from the establishment.
However, let them get into the establishment, and they will quickly change their mind.... I'm hoping on my way in some day...
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby dlin » 08 Mar 2009, 20:01

mr_boogie wrote:It is easier to say that most foreigners are anti-KMT because they do not profit from the establishment.
However, let them get into the establishment, and they will quickly change their mind.... I'm hoping on my way in some day...


sad :cry: ...but so true, money/power can change a person oh so quickly
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby Tortue » 21 Mar 2009, 14:28

Hello all :bow:

My name is Jeff (contraction of "Jean-François") I'm a young french guy whom already pass few years in our lovely island (and greater china). I'm new on this forum and I would have prefered introduce myself in a post provide for that purpose, but this topic seemed very interesting to answer.

At the question "Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?", I think I agree with on what has already been said (even though I have not read all the 22 pages :lick: ), that indeed most of foreigner are anti-kmt and/or PI but with very different results depending on the social status.

Personally I'm not ashamed to say that I'm profoundly "old school" KMT supporter ("Taiwan part of China, but the PRC are usurpers. The ROC should reconquer the Mainland.") and that I've (shortly) already worked with them (my master's thesis (I'm graduated from NCCU (very KMT-ish university, I know) on direct-links ban costs has been used by the Ma's admin).

I usually have a lot of "ennemies" by saying that (especially among the french communities, strongly anti-china/prc) but it's what I think and what I believe upon my (short) experiences and observations in Greater China.

Wish you all a great week-end :cool:
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby maoman » 21 Mar 2009, 14:49

Tortue wrote:I'm a young french guy whom already pass few years in our lovely island (and greater china).
Personally I'm not ashamed to say that I'm profoundly "old school" KMT supporter ("Taiwan part of China, but the PRC are usurpers. The ROC should reconquer the Mainland.")
I usually have a lot of "enemies" by saying that (especially among the french communities, strongly anti-china/prc) but it's what I think and what I believe upon my (short) experiences and observations in Greater China.

Hi Jeff, and welcome to Forumosa! :)

Your opinion would carry more weight with me if you had to live with the consequences of what you're promoting. Raise a Taiwanese family here, and you might have a different perspective.

Or maybe not. I admit, the prospect of a responsible, freedom-loving, democratic China is a nice one, but because it's SO unlikely to happen within our lifetimes, I think I'll not stake my family's future on it. Your family in France isn't going to suffer the consequences of a failed unification, so your opinion is largely academic.
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Re: Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?

Postby Mucha Man » 21 Mar 2009, 15:02

Tortue wrote:Hello all :bow:

My name is Jeff (contraction of "Jean-François") I'm a young french guy whom already pass few years in our lovely island (and greater china). I'm new on this forum and I would have prefered introduce myself in a post provide for that purpose, but this topic seemed very interesting to answer.

At the question "Most Foreigners are anti-KMT?", I think I agree with on what has already been said (even though I have not read all the 22 pages :lick: ), that indeed most of foreigner are anti-kmt and/or PI but with very different results depending on the social status.

Personally I'm not ashamed to say that I'm profoundly "old school" KMT supporter ("Taiwan part of China, but the PRC are usurpers. The ROC should reconquer the Mainland.") and that I've (shortly) already worked with them (my master's thesis (I'm graduated from NCCU (very KMT-ish university, I know) on direct-links ban costs has been used by the Ma's admin).

I usually have a lot of "ennemies" by saying that (especially among the french communities, strongly anti-china/prc) but it's what I think and what I believe upon my (short) experiences and observations in Greater China.

Wish you all a great week-end :cool:


The PRC is the legitimate government of China and any argument to portray it otherwise must be made of whole cloth.

The people of Taiwan, who vote for their leaders, and hence foreign policy, overwhelmingly do not want to unify with China and are not in the slightest interested in "taking it back." The current KMT admin's legitimacy rests solely with the people of Taiwan. They therefore have no right to make claims over territory that they do not control, and whose people have not voted for them. It wouldn't matter if all of China wanted a second Ma term, it will be the 23 million people in Taiwan who will decide. You need to recognize this country for what it is now, in 2009, and not what a tiny cabal of unelected party members still dream of. There is no room for the old school in a democratic Taiwan which is why Lien Chan and Soong were never elected to a single position.

As Maoman said, you have the right to your academic opinions, but they are dangerous and undemocratic.
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