Financial matters in our relationship

[darth_guy]

My girlfriend is Taiwanese, I'm West European.

When we talk about our incomes and the financial obligations we (will) have, she accuses me of wanting to calculate everything in a very detailed way.

She also says "men should pay more". Because men take care of their women. Cultural differences...

I'm particularly surprised of her attitude towards financial planning / financial book keeping for the household. In my opinion, this is what you do when you live together. Even if I explain that everything should be fair and balanced, taking into account how much income each of us has, etc.

Taiwanese young people financially support their parents. I agree about this, and I told her I am willing help out as well.

Still, the issue is brought up now and then, and she recently discussed this with a colleague of her.

I'm stumped with her attitude against simple financial planning. I get the feeling I'm a bad guy! Very conscious moneywise, and perhaps even stingy!

We haven't even started living together. I'm back in my country now, where we plan to live.

So Forumosans, is this recognisable? Can this be a cultural thing? I am interested to hear what you think.

[Impaler]

I thought that Chinese sons took care of their parents, Chinese daughters became part of their husbands' families and took care of the husbands' parents.

[steelersman]

Maybe she is an only child so she needs to yair care of her parents financially.

[yuli]

she accuses me of wanting to calculate everything in a very detailed way.

She "accuses" you? That sounds like there is some emotional undercurrent calling for attention...

I'm particularly surprised of her attitude towards financial planning / financial book keeping for the household.

If you were to live in Taiwan I'd recommend that you guys consider at least what I know as the Japanese system, but which is known widely in other countries, as well, and thus may perhaps even be known to your partner as the Taiwanese system : you give her the bulk of your income every month, just retaining an agreed upon amount, which is your discretionary spending. She, on the other hand, takes care of ALL financial obligations of your household and your family. This suggestion does not imply inequality of the sexes or prescribed gender roles but is simply based on the assumption that it makes practical sense for a couple where one partner is not familiar with the structural and organisational characteristics of the society the couple lives in.
So, what is the country where are you planning to live? Can you reverse-apply this sytem?

[msleft]

Even if I explain that everything should be fair and balanced, taking into account how much income each of us has, etc.

I think it's cultural.
I am a Taiwanese. and I agree with your girlfriend. I don't think anything can be actually fair in the world, especially when your loved ones involved.

[Deuce Dropper]

as a man in Taiwan married to a local there is only one way to maintain financial freedom.

-keep separate bank accounts
-pay for all household bills

then if your partner wants a new handbag, or a new phone etc... it is on her.

you pay rent, electric, cable, restaurant bills (unless she wants to treat) etc...she will happily pay for all frivolous items she wants. This is how it worked when she lived at home.

the idea of the 'Japanese method' of handing over my income and getting an 'allowance' from my wife makes me want to puke in my fucking mouth. There are things a man needs to pay for that no amount of justification would ever make a wife understand, I don't want to beg my wife for MY money.

[finley]

I think it's partly cultural and partly just people.

The majority of people who have come and gone in my life (Taiwanese and otherwise) had absolutely no money sense whatsoever. They would just piss it away without taking account of where it's going and where they expect it to come from, and then complain about how "they don't have enough money". However, Taiwanese women do seem to be noticeably worse in this respect. My ex-wife (Taiwanese) has an attitude very similar to your gf: basically, the bf/husband is an ATM in which you never need to deposit anything. As Deuce notes, it's very common for husbands to simply hand over all their salary to the wife so she can chuck it down the toilet, which is wrong on many different levels. Taiwanese education also doesn't offer any home economics tuition; for example, my ex didn't understand that a monthly 1.5% interest rate on a loan is larger than the 18%APR credit-card bills she was using it to pay off.

You need to get this sorted before you have a marriage certificate, because at that point you will be in deep brown stuff, especially since your gf seems unable to discuss it like an adult (you use the word "accuse").

In my case, the ex had serious emotional issues which she soothed by running up credit card bills. Make sure your gf is not one of these. It was my job to pay all the household bills (all of them) while she spent every penny of her (not-bad) salary filling our house with useless shit that we didn't need.

So, stick to your guns over the financial planning. There is NO other way to do it. Sounds like you've got a perfectly sensible approach (calculating recurring expenses and split between you in proportion to salaries). It is eminently fair. However, when you have this kind of non-logic to contend with:

I am a Taiwanese. and I agree with your girlfriend. I don't think anything can be actually fair in the world, especially when your loved ones involved.

it's a bit of an uphill struggle.

You might want to reframe your approach: tell her that you're planning for your future together, and trying to make sure you have a nice place to live, a college fund for the kids, and so on. This didn't work for me (I just got a temper tantrum and an insistence that she wanted all that stuff and the spending sprees). However, it's worth a try. If it's still no-go, move on and find someone else. Financial mismanagement causes terrible stress and misery and is one of the leading causes of divorce.

[msleft]

as a man in Taiwan married to a local there is only one way to maintain financial freedom.

-keep separate bank accounts
-pay for all ssehold

then if your partner wants a new handbag, or a new phone etc... it is on her.

you pay rent, electric, cable, restaurant bills (unless she wants to treat) etc...she will happily pay for all frivolous items she wants. This is how it worked when she lived at home.

the idea of the 'Japanese method' of handing over my income and getting an 'allowance' from my wife makes me want to puke in my fucking mouth. There are things a man needs to pay for that no amount of justification would ever make a wife understand, I don't want to beg my wife for MY money.

My parents had used what you called "Japanese methods, and always fighted for how my father couldn't have managed his money well. They got better when they turned to this way.:

as a man in Taiwan married to a local there is only one way to maintain financial freedom.

-keep separate bank accounts
-pay for all ssehold

then if your partner wants a new handbag, or a new phone etc... it is on her.

you pay rent, electric, cable, restaurant bills (unless she wants to treat) etc...she will happily pay for all frivolous items she wants. This is how it worked when she lived at home.
.

But actually, my mother's financial sense is better than my father. During the early years of their marriage, he would lend friends money, and couldn't get it back. That's why my mother wanted to control all the money, originally. Now, she still make most of our financial investment plans. And she even used her money to open an account for him. I don't think wives can lavish husbands' money, though.
Even if I got married and my huby handed over money, I won't put it all into my account. If he is a better money manager than me, and as long as he agrees to take care for the household bill. It's ok for me. So I think Deuce Dropper's suggestion is a very pratical solution.

[yuli]

[...] the idea of [...] getting an 'allowance' from my wife makes me want to puke in my fucking mouth. There are things a man needs to pay for that no amount of justification would ever make a wife understand, I don't want to beg my wife for MY money.

Reread:
1) "you give her the bulk of your income every month, just retaining an agreed upon amount, which is your discretionary spending"
=> you would "retain" ("keep") something, you wouldn't "beg" for anything
2) "So, what is the country where are you planning to live? Can you reverse-apply this sytem?"
=> let him take the role the wife would typically play in Japan/Taiwan - your own suggestion stops one point short of my proposal:

as a man in Taiwan married to a local there is only one way to maintain financial freedom.
-keep separate bank accounts
-pay for all household bills

In my proposal there would be a point 3:

-get a part of her salary from her

I therefore humbly submit that my proposal is not only practical but also specifically acknowledges the partner's culture...

actually, my mother's financial sense is better than my father. During the early years of their marriage, he would lend friends money, and couldn't get it back. That's why my mother wanted to control all the money, originally. Now, she still make most of our financial investment plans. And she even used her money to open an account for him.

That's what I was thinking of: cases where this system works...

Even if I got married and my huby handed over money, I won't put it all into my account.

The household/family account - both partners can have their own accounts in addition (that's how my parents did it)

If he is a better money manager than me, and as long as he agrees to take care for the household bill. It's ok for me.

Exactly what i suggested! It has nothing to do with gender but with cultural experience and skill...

[yuli]

double posting