finances and Fiancees

[Feiren]

I think part of the problem here may be that many Taiwanese women are deeply invested in the idea of marriage as an institution in which the man takes care of the woman emotionally and financially or at least keeps up an semblance of that being the case. Talking about finances could challenge that ideal of marriage.

Quite a few people from other places see marriage increasingly as a partnership. In the partnership view, it is very important to have full disclosure about important issues like finances.

I suspect these two views are coming into conflict. Or she may have debt that she doesn't want to discuss.

I'd be concerned about whether she is going to get an academic job. In most fields, only very ambitious and aggressive people get those jobs. They don't fall in your lap. What if she can't get an academic job and stops working after she gets married? How will you feel then?

If you really love her, I think you won't care even though it may lead to financial problems later.

[baberenglish]

Bad news=universities here are consolidating over the next 5 years. 160+ at the moment being consolidated into 90. She won't be a prof anytime soon. I know assistant profs doing the same gig over 15 years.
Time for her to consider a career change. There is a lot she can do besides being a prof with a post grad.

[tsukinodeynatsu]

I think part of the problem here may be that many Taiwanese women are deeply invested in the idea of marriage as an institution in which the man takes care of the woman emotionally and financially or at least keeps up an semblance of that being the case. Talking about finances could challenge that ideal of marriage.

On this note, and slightly off-topic, it might be a good idea to point out to the men on this forum that women in Taiwan are bombarded with these ideals of how a man 'should' treat you, and told by everybody from the security guard to the old lady at work that if he doesn't do X, Y and Z then he must not love you or isn't a 'good man'. X, Y and Z are usually things like 'pay for you' 'have enough money to pay for everything' 'have his own house' 'give you lifts everywhere' 'wouldn't let you go out at night' and other really ...bizarre-to-me things.

Myself, I can brush off these comments and set people straight about what's important to me, both because I grew up outside of this environment and because I've got a healthy level of self-confidence. It's not so easy for girls who've grown up surrounded by it. Even when you get a chance to consider it and want to reject it, I think your 'ideals' would be warring with the outside pressure from everyone else. Probably plays a fairly-large role in a lot of issues like this one.

[Homey]

I think it can all be turned around and viewed from the opposite perspective. In my opinion, the girls who date/marry for financial gain don't really love the man.

Partnership. This is the key word. Anything else is just another form of prostitution.

Waiting until your married or living together to discuss money is a sure recipe for disaster. If there is not enough communication to even discuss topics like money, then chances for long term success are slim. Communication is the most important part of a relationship. Without this, any number of life's challenges such as money, health, family, will all become major issues.

[CraigTPE]

My impression of how married Taiwanese couples handle their money is like they are room mates. No joint bank accounts. No joint assets. All separate.

[jdsmith]

My impression of how married Taiwanese couples handle their money is like they are room mates. No joint bank accounts. No joint assets. All separate.

That's not my impression at all. In the married couples I know where the husband works and mom is a housewife, the wives hold the plastic and pay the bills. The men seem fine with that. I'm not sure what you mean by a joint account, but if the wife has the husband's ATM card, it's the same to me.

I'm not sure what to think about the OP's situation. He's worked and saved like he thought he should and he's a in a relationship with a well educated but not a particularly work-driven woman. Does they plan to have children? Does she wan to be a stay at home wife? There's nothing wrong with that btw. I'd love to be able to make enough to support my entire family and not have to stick my kid in day care.

There's no pattern to follow, OP. But if you are have doubts about it, slow down.

[CraigTPE]

That's not my impression at all. In the married couples I know where the husband works and mom is a housewife, the wives hold the plastic and pay the bills. The men seem fine with that. I'm not sure what you mean by a joint account, but if the wife has the husband's ATM card, it's the same to me.

Most married couples I know both work. One gives the other X-amount of money for bills, kind of like how a room mate might.

You don't know what a joint account is? One where both names are on the paperwork? Even houses. Most people I ask say that their house is in one person's name or the other, but not both.

[crystaleye]

My wife is also useless with money. I do not think she has NT$ 100 in the bank. Lucky for us her parents are relatively well off.

How I deal with it is simple. I have my credit card and she has hers.I pay mine and she pays hers. Not negotiable in my book. Every month I give her X amount for all the household expenses. I pay all the bills such as electricity, internet etc.

After this the balance is invested with a portion going to the bank for any emergencies.

If by the 20th of the month she is broke. Tough luck. Her salary is sufficient for her not to live like a pauper and save some. If she needs to borrow money from me it gets paid back on pay day not neg. Its the usual story "oh I got such a bargain for 500NT", not realizing all the bargains add up.

Bottom line is that it needs to be dealt with before you get married as money issues can quickly destroy a marriage. I look at my parents as a good example of how money arguments can fuck a marriage up.

I was told by a counselor that 70% of marriages fell apart because of money.. and that counselor was in the West..

can you imagine how much more worse is the situation in asia with M&M? Money & Marriages?

[jdsmith]

That's not my impression at all. In the married couples I know where the husband works and mom is a housewife, the wives hold the plastic and pay the bills. The men seem fine with that. I'm not sure what you mean by a joint account, but if the wife has the husband's ATM card, it's the same to me.

Most married couples I know both work. One gives the other X-amount of money for bills, kind of like how a room mate might.

You don't know what a joint account is? One where both names are on the paperwork? Even houses. Most people I ask say that their house is in one person's name or the other, but not both.

I know what a joint account is. That's why I gave my description of the guy giving his wife his ATM card.

I guess my next question is So what? One name for the house, one name for the car, one name on the mortgage. And? You disapprove? Nothing here is in my name. None of our stocks are in my wife's name? So?

I guess that if the OP has a sense of distrust with his fiancee, he should really re-evaluate the relationship.

[downtownandrew]

omfg... so many opinions - good ones and flat out retarded ones.
Thanks.. to some but allot honestly. You just dont get it.

Love doesn't pay the f'n bills. It sounds cute in the movies... but I really don't think your spouse is going to hang out with you in a cardboard box or a van down by the river. Living on one income in a shitty economy... life is even harder, and I sure as fuck dont want that lifestyle... one vacation a year maybe, cutting coupons, looking at the 75% off rack first, etc.
I could do that single. But I don't want to be the oldman at the bar either.

No doubt its a tricky conversation, we will find our way.

To that fuckhead who says talking about money is low class... yadda yadda.. yea well, FU.
You are beta for not having the balls to talk about it with a woman you love, and probably will let things spiral out of control and then wonder wtf happened to my life? I cut that shit off at the source. Peace out, asshole.

I want more out of life. Money gives you that freedom. I said enough... let this little firestorm rage on...