finances and Fiancees

[ichbinjenny]

Hey Andrew, I wonder if your gf might be getting a lot of advice from family and friends, advice that is contradictory to our Western customs. Here, women are expected to get married and be fully taken care of, and most men want this responsibility. Finding a job is hard, and she's probably given up -- and her family and friends probably tell her to stop trying and start finding a wedding ring. She might have told people that you have a nice nest egg set up, and now all she hears is how he should be spending that money on a house, on kids, on the family, NOW. Money here isn't for later, it's for now. The philosophy here is that later, you'll be given red envelopes by your kids; your retirement will be taken care of.

You need to talk about these things now. Can you help her get some kind of non-uni job? Consulting, private teaching, retail? (Working in retail isn't bad -- she's studied her entire life. Working in a shop will introduce her to new people, make her value her time, make her responsible for something, and give her some pocket money.) By the way -- good on you for saving so well on your own.

And, headhauncho is a nice guy. (HH: Don't stick the pencil in your ear...)

[zender]

Had . . . a shocking conversation with my fiancee . . .

You have promised to marry her. For me, that's the point where you are all in. For better or worse, in good times or bad, sickness or health, for rich or poor.

She fully knows . . . I have a nest egg of money I have no intention of touching until retirement. I am not super wealthy . . . She has been off and on work for the past year... ( recent graduate with a Doctorate degree). She is very book smart, but . . . She hates the job, but she is working...
We had a discussion over money, and all of sudden she closed off the conversation.
. . . she is not a spend thrift, she is very cautious with her money.

So, she's smart, she's not a spendthrift, she's got a job, she's willing to work at a job even though she hates it, she loves you enough to marry you, she knows you're not super wealthy, she's got a doctorate and it's in something like sales.
It sounds like she's got good earning potential, is cautious with money, and she just hasn't started her career.

She did not want to talk about how much money she has at all. I think it was out of embarrassment. No kids, btw. Nor do we want them.

I think you're right. She may feel a little embarrassed that you currently have more money than she does.
No kids means that much less money to worry about.

wth do I do?

Relax. I think you'll be able to work things out. You could point out some news articles to her and gradually get her to open up about money.

"Check this out! Here's a girl who has spent a million dollars on clothes for her dog! Whattaya think about that?"
"Here it says, "a couple needs NT$40 million to retire comfortably at age 60.' Is that right?"
"Hey! The price of binlang has gone up 30% since 2010. Can we still afford to chew?"

[psidriven]

So OP, what was the outcome? Hoping to hear how this worked out for you.

[tommy525]

Women (sorry to sound harsh) are like cars. Most of them are bad financial investments. But where would you be without them? Possibly well off but then thats no fun is it?

The more most of them "save" through ON SALE items , the broker you get.

They (most of them) have no natural gene to desist from buying something ON SALE.

Its like a natural birthright to run out of the house at the mere whisper of something ON SALE.

Some are good with finances. Some are financial wizards (iv met none , cept maybe one of my two sisters). But most are not.

They are put on Gods good earth to spend money (most of it YOURS).

So you have to gently guide them. That plus make sure you get your money's worth (because Lord, you gonna be payin) of affections and cuddles and other feel good values.

Women are definitely something you engage with, with your HEART because your HEAD will definitely not agree. Sort of like an Alfa Romeo.

[superking]

[quote=andrew]Not expecting to get an solution online.[/quote]

Hi. So you temper your request with the above statement then get blustery at the spew it emanates. Is that logical, even for a Petula Clarke aficionado...?

So you find yourself engaged to a child with the (chronological) body of an adult. You have a number of options...

1) Marry her. Play the long game. Eventually persuade her to visit your home country for the weekend.
2) Marry her. Embrace the cheapness of Scotch.
3) Marry her, love her, shut the fuck up.
4) Marry her. Divorce her. Stump up on forums with your wisdom.
5) Marry her. Have kids. Go bananas. Add disaster scene from this point...
6) Trepan.
7) Redress the situation.
8) Never post again and the rest of us won't give a shit.
9) Stick around.

[tomthorne]

She's just completed her doctorate and has only been working sporadically in the year since. Of course she hasn't got any money. It must have made her pretty uncomfortable to have been asked this question directly. A better discussion would be about reaching her career goals and how you can use your experience to help with her cv, networking etc. Talking about investing and finance is pointless because she almost certainly has little or nothing to invest.

Bottom line is you are going to be funding her life until she finds a job. If you are not prepared to do that then you should not be getting married, but I think you already know this.

[Shaktipalooza]

The OP was asking a very specific question about one aspect of his relationship. I don't see the need for him to wax poetically about his love for his fiancee.

Some couples (like my own situation) have their finances intertwined in every aspect down to the last penny. Others have completely separate accounts and assets. I couldn't say from observation that either is a more successful strategy for a happy relationship, but it is extremely important that both spouses are on the same page with their chosen strategy.

The OP may be a little premature in his concerns considering his fiancee appears to be just getting started in her professional life. I had a good friend that for years was a career student, meandering through degrees and schools. His fiancee at the time had doubts (so did I) if he was ever going to secure his Phd and become a productive member of society. He did eventually, and is now tenured professor at a prestigious school, doing well enough to support his wife and child, and live in interesting parts of the world while pursuing his research.

The OP wants a conversation about finances, they're getting married, this is basic and essential stuff.

In the West it's often repeated "all you need is love", but as many of us get older, we come to the realization that such an ideal is nonsense. My wife is from a culture that understands this from day one. Luckily with her cultural background and my advanced age we were well synchronized on such matters when we first met.

Whether or not a person prioritizes money issues has nothing to do with their ability to be an emotionally available, compassionate person. This is especially true if they intend to have children someday, attitudes about finance DO MATTER.

[tomthorne]

That's good Shaktilapooza, but do you have any ideas how he can get her to talk about finances when she refuses to?

[divea]

The OP asked for opinions, he got them. The ones he did not like, he gave them fuck youse. Literally. 3 of them. SK, Headhoncho and Tommy.

Money convos don't happen in ONE conversation. Or Two. They need to be talked over at great length in smallish doses and you have to learn about the other person's financial attitudes by their actions and not just by what they say or don't say.

Plus we are all assuming the fiancee does not have money. She may have a bucket load given by her family or from wherever and doesn't want to reveal it yet. Maybe she does not trust the OP with her money.

[Icon]

Gosh, just had a look at this thread. Never took some of you guys for such "romantics". Love will conquer all.

I understand the OP. There are bells ringing, his spidey sense is tingling. A person (man or woman) who leaves a job as soon as there is an opening in another (an opening, not a fixed "this job has been already given to me" situation) is fluttering. Floating without fixed direction. Not facing reality. She may have a bucketload of money, but she's not willing to pull her part of the daily expenses of daily, normal life. So having money and not using it does not count.

To al of you accusing him of not loving her enough to withstand all the ups and downs and unexpected items that happen in a relationship, I remind you that a marriage/long term relationship is a team. Like a pair of oxen, you have to be pulling in the same direction at the same pace. It doens't matter who is stronger or bigger, but that they are in step. That is whay the "money talk" is vital.

Remember Autie Peng's advice: when poverty enters the room, love jumps off the window.(Spanish proverb).

Moreover, in a relationship, communication is vital, and to engage in communication, one has to open up. See, it is riskier now that he's contemplating bailout because she closed up. If she says "I want us to invest in selling ice to eskimos", fine, that is her point of view. he knows, he can supprt, concur, cheer her on the sidelines and not participate, whatever, he has a choice. But if he's going to support her without even knowing if that is her thinking -I've seen women who grow to resent it, blame the guy for not giving them the freedom to grow and other stuff because he's the provider so he's to blame- he has the right to ask a few questions.

I see some of the foreign guys just lay there financially in front of their wives like a troused chicken and I wonder, if the situation would be the same in their native lands. Would they be willing to concede that much? Don't tell me it's all for love because I believe there is a breakling point at that. On one hand, seems the woman is still a child , considers herself a child and hence expects to be supported as if by a parent -and we know how seeing your mate as a parent kills love faster than insecticide. On the other, there is an almost S&M quality to it, the dominated is actually the one holding al the power -when she takes the floor out of the guy's feet and you ar left wondering what happened. Seen both cases time and time again.

As usual, take this with a pound of salt, being Friday, the darkest day of the week, and coming from Auntie Peng.