finances and Fiancees

[headhonchoII]

But, I was expecting to have an open conversation about money... and now it seems like a potential kiss of death to us.
wth do I do?

Call off the wedding. If you can't discuss finances with your spouse, that spells utter disaster for the marriage.

The problem is he is not discussing but rather criticizing his fiancée lack of money, she has probably got that vibe already.

[Icon]

the "money talk" is vital.

Agreed. Any ideas how the OP might achieve this?

Wait for the right time, not be angry, thread softly. The baby talk, the money talk, the expectations talk... all must be brought out eventually. No room for assumptions in a relationship.

Icon really??? I'm in a relationship for the last 16 years and any talk, that we did have and if we agreed to anything is OUT of the window. It really is meaningless. My life is nothing that I assumed it would be, or the way I planned it. Love really helps you sort out a lot of stuff, cliched as it may sound. Everything else is an arrangement that comes with a caveat *Terms and conditions are liable to change without prior notice*.


You can have the talk, you should but it does not give you any clarity, you can even have a pre-nup about how you would live your married life and yet it can go defunct. IMO, they had the talk. It's done. He said what he needed and she heard what she did and told him the price of fruit. Finito. Just because it was not what HE expected to hear, doesn't mean it did not happen.

Sure, life is life and so unexpected, but we are talking about underlying values and expectations here. It is more along the lines of "what kind of relationship do you want?" not "in 5 years I want a Ferrarii Testarrosa at teh door or I'm out.. Make it yellow."

There are always doors and choices to be made, but those choices are not to be implied, assumed or imposed. For example, I guess when you guys got married, your husband mentioned the possibility of his having to be posted abroad due to the nature of his work. Of couse, he couldn't know at the time where or when. Imagine if this had been a deal breaker for you. Instead, you agreed, even if you did not know where the job would take him and your family. I guess it as pretty hard to have a kid by yourself in Beijing instead of home with the family, but you did it well, and you guys were already a team by that time with a common goal. Not all women can and are willing to follow the husband. There are several guys here who have followed the woman when posted to Taiwan. It is not easy, and there must be communication to make the transition. Same with money. Different families have differenet ways of viewing and managing money. When people get together, they are not just pooling salaries, they are also bringing attitudes, values, and fears associated with money. It is also a kind of trip.

[tommy525]

I think in many cases women and finances do not mix well. I think this is a trait that keeps men loyal because most of us can NOT afford TWO women to support in our lives.

I will use myself as an example of monetary tribulation vis-a-vis my SO> We all have our women and women+money troubles. Well many of us anyway.

Just different women and different troubles. Or at least different manners of trouble.

Now my particular little lady (jumble of joy she is, and I mean that most sincerely) does not make enough over in JKT to float her own boat. Without going into complete details. Shes a young lady and as such requires some buying of clothes (am repeating ad nauseam here how she should not keep buying clothes and bras and other female paraphenilia when she has maxed out her credit card) and other assorted knickknacks. She of course stresses the ON SALE aspect of everything and how desirable and needed each item of clothing is , etc. And of course happily poses for pictures with the newly bought clothing, bags, other accessories. And to be honest she does look nice in them.

Plus her transportation bill has sky rocketed since i refused to let her take the motorcycle taxi (its ridiculous in jkt traffic really). So she taxis everywhere. To work, to school, to the gym, to the mall, to go out to eat after the gym and the mall, etc.

Then theres rent for a habitable place (and thats important of course and i got her a nice place). And of course theres movie money, hanging out with her buds once a week money. A few bucks thrown her younger brothers way money. Not to mention tuition and money for exams and of course clothing for school and work. ETC.

Shes fully capable of spending my money without any problems whatsoever. That is well established.

I will have to make sure to bring her over for personal care and attention, before I lose all my money investing in her lifestyle in jkt. And getting no direct benefit thereof.

No mileage points (hint hint)

So I am monitoring her expenses , and requiring a complete list of expenditures before i cough up more dough. Feeling like the World Bank and dealing with a savage third world nation here.

A complete accounting of exactly how the monies are spent to the dollar is required and she happily has been forthcoming with that information.

What is non-happy today for example. And a subject of a few (read manY) hurried texting back and forth is the discovery just today of an overdraft on her credit line. Oh jolly. Last month this happened and there was a FEE for this service. ON top of the extremely usurious APR of 42pct per annum Citibank is charging her for the benefit (entirely to Citibank) of allowing her the use of a Visa card !

I of course, was less then pleased and not particularly sanguine about this oversight.

I mean , just how hard is it really?

YOu max out your card last month, incur not only the extremely high interest rate to carry a debt but get a fee charged on top for exceeding your limit (now a proper card company will simply not accept the use of your card once your limit has been reached, not CiTibank). So you paid down the card (with MY money) and you should know exactly how much you have before you reach your limit again yes?

Well apparently NOT. Because shes incurred a pretty large overdraft and a fee of sixty US dollars for this service.

I am not happy about this and have told her that i will demand she cut this card in two if this should occur again.

So yes, we all have our women + money problems. Well not all of us, because many are lucky enough to be married to women who are very financially adept.

NOt apparently to include me.

[pgdaddy1]

I do question the OP's online etiquette. He posted on a forum and asked for advice and then used abusive language against those he disagreed with.

Yep, and if he talks to his fiancee like he talks to some of the (generally) well meaning posters here, then he deserves all of the shit he gets in return.

He actually reminds me of you.

That's why I used the word "generally" there. And it's pretty clear to all and sundry that you are often not well meaning.

[Diomedes]

@downtownandrew - I recently went through the SAME EXACT THING. I'd brought up the money conversation several times in several different ways. She dodged or dropped the topic just as many, until one day she said in that tone, you know... the tone you want to avoid in a relationship, "Listen, I don't want your money. Keep it. Anything we do in life doesn't need to involve your money so stop asking about mine."

The reality is that by avoiding or dropping the topic, she was sending a very clear message I was just refusing to hear. After she said this, I listened. I took about a good chunk of my net worth and gave it to my parents in cash. I told them the only things they were to give it back to me for was (a) if I came home single or (b) to put my kids through college.

She is telling you to CYA and make yourself a parachute, this way you wont worry when the plane goes down.


@everyone else - I want to take a moment and point out that it is stories like tommy's that make downtownandrew and myself want to ask these questions. Talking about money with the person you have intentions to spend the rest of your life with is not low-class or disrespectful, it is realistic and practical; ESPECIALLY when the two people in a relationship have different cultural views and norms about how money should be handled. Attempting to have an open discussion about money is a way of mitigating complications in a relationship which (might) have communication and/or language barriers.

[headhonchoII]

Yep but the way he talks about money, and about his fiancé, is not a good sign. You think us married people don't talk about money?

[jimipresley]

I will evaluate this thread tomorrow evening when I have time. Until then, please bear this in mind:

Treat the moderators with respect.

Do not post messages attacking the moderators or administrators.

All of the moderators at Forumosa are volunteers. They provide their time and their good judgment to this website free of charge. The rules, which have grown organically over the years, are endorsed by admin and enforced by the moderators. Neither party deserve to have scorn heaped upon them either publicly or privately.

If you think something requires the attention of the moderators, please PM them with a link to the post in question.

Also, per your request, I'm not going to lock it. This is an on-line discussion forum and whilst I agree some posts have not been exclusively about YOU, nor your nefarious OP issues, they are mostly related. I don't find too much wrong with the way that the discussion has been conducted, apart from your excessive profanity and disrespect to the people who have (mostly) given of their time and generosity to answer your queries. Don't ask in the first place if you don't require opinions. I'm in the PM box if you have any problems with this.

[Gao Bohan]

But, I was expecting to have an open conversation about money... and now it seems like a potential kiss of death to us.
wth do I do?

Call off the wedding. If you can't discuss finances with your spouse, that spells utter disaster for the marriage.

I agree.

[Omniloquacious]

If he responds to what his fiancee tells him in anything like the abusive manner of his responses here, then I'd be surprised if she dared to discuss anything at all with him, let alone something as sensitive as her financial situation, habits and goals.

And actually, although many posters have said they consider it essential to discuss such matters with someone they intend to marry, I did not do so at all, nor even think about doing so. And so far, we've been married peaceably for more than eight years, and have never had even the shadow of a disagreement or misunderstanding about anything to do with money.

As far as I was concerned, we both had our own incomes and own savings, and there was no need for these to be pooled or for either of us to need to know what the other had. I owned a home in which we would live, and would pay most of our living expenses. She could use her own money however she pleased, and I would never inquire about it. If we had a child, which we didn't intend to (but did later have), she could stop working and I would be able to meet all of our family expenses. When we got married and she told me that her dad would give her a nice 7-figure "dowry", I made it clear that I didn't view it as marital property, it was entirely hers, and she could with it as she pleased.

So while I wouldn't say anything against a couple discussing their finances and jointly arranging their financial affairs before getting married, if that is what they consider appropriate for their situation, I don't think it's by any means necessary for all couples.

[housecat]

*I've culled off topic posts. The OP is taking a couple of days to cool off. Please keep posts on topic, and please stick to the rules about no personal attacks. Thanks.--Housecat