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What am I doing wrong here?

A non-threatening place for individuals and couples living in Taiwan to discuss dating and relationship issues

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What am I doing wrong here?

Postby strider » 07 Mar 2016, 23:02

So I've never had a problem getting dates in the States, or really in any country I've been in, but I'm really running into a brick wall in Taiwan, I can't understand what the issue is, any insights would be useful.

I go to a University, so there are lots of cute girls around so meeting them is no problem. But over and over and over, after having a nice chat, getting to know one, I'll ask if they want to get coffee, they usually say "sure!" and offer to give me their LINE info. I even ask about their schedule and we agree on a day. But, when the day comes, they just ignore the LINE.

I mean, sure, this happens SOMETIMES anywhere, but this has happened to me like...at least 20 times now. This has never happened to me before. Is there some cultural procedure for dating I'm not following or what? Any guesses?
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby Gryphon » 07 Mar 2016, 23:54

strider wrote:So I've never had a problem getting dates in the States, or really in any country I've been in, but I'm really running into a brick wall in Taiwan, I can't understand what the issue is, any insights would be useful.

I go to a University, so there are lots of cute girls around so meeting them is no problem. But over and over and over, after having a nice chat, getting to know one, I'll ask if they want to get coffee, they usually say "sure!" and offer to give me their LINE info. I even ask about their schedule and we agree on a day. But, when the day comes, they just ignore the LINE.

I mean, sure, this happens SOMETIMES anywhere, but this has happened to me like...at least 20 times now. This has never happened to me before. Is there some cultural procedure for dating I'm not following or what? Any guesses?


It seems they've been told by their friends that you're just after one thing... And their parents probably object to the idea of their daughter dating a foreigner.
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby hsinhai78 » 08 Mar 2016, 00:10

Gryphon wrote: It seems they've been told by their friends that you're just after one thing... And their parents probably object to the idea of their daughter dating a foreigner.


What? Maybe in the deepest woods of some Evangelical hideout in Taoyuan or Jiayi. But seriously @ OP: fix a date, time and place. Take the lead and be specific. Otherwise it's not actually a fixed meeting.
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby naijeru » 08 Mar 2016, 01:43

Lean back a bit. In my experience Taiwanese women are pretty direct about what they want but indirect about saying no. Let them be the first to suggest getting together before asking them out. :2cents:
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby afterspivak » 08 Mar 2016, 05:48

this has happened to me like...at least 20 times now


I suspect that the word is out: you're just going after everyone in a serial manner.

Plus what naijeru said. Stay positive, but perhaps back off a bit. Are there group events where people share similar interests? If so, that would be less intimidating than a one-on-one coffee date. :2cents:

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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby best_intentions » 08 Mar 2016, 11:11

You've probably just run into a cold streak (or have a unique "flaw" that only affects Taiwanese women.)

The majority of Taiwanese women don't "want" to date a foreigner, but there is a huge pool of women out there that do. Okcupid will get you tons of dates (and perhaps even love) and most are very open or exclusively want to find a foreigner.
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby finley » 08 Mar 2016, 11:39

I suspect that the word is out: you're just going after everyone in a serial manner.

Yeah, I was wondering about that :) You need to expand your social circle somehow; or at least wait for the women to show interest first.

best_intentions wrote:The majority of Taiwanese women don't "want" to date a foreigner, but there is a huge pool of women out there that do. Okcupid will get you tons of dates (and perhaps even love) and most are very open or exclusively want to find a foreigner.

This might be a factor. It's not racism as such. It's just that people have their preferences, and dating a person from your own culture is comfortable and familiar.

Definitely worth trying online dating. You'll waste an awful lot of time on bullshit (fake profiles, profiles that have been abandoned, etc) but there are some interesting people out there who are either specifically "into" foreigners or are open to the idea.
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby super_lucky » 08 Mar 2016, 12:53

finley wrote:
I suspect that the word is out: you're just going after everyone in a serial manner.

Yeah, I was wondering about that :) You need to expand your social circle somehow; or at least wait for the women to show interest first.

best_intentions wrote:The majority of Taiwanese women don't "want" to date a foreigner, but there is a huge pool of women out there that do. Okcupid will get you tons of dates (and perhaps even love) and most are very open or exclusively want to find a foreigner.

This might be a factor. It's not racism as such. It's just that people have their preferences, and dating a person from your own culture is comfortable and familiar.

Definitely worth trying online dating. You'll waste an awful lot of time on bullshit (fake profiles, profiles that have been abandoned, etc) but there are some interesting people out there who are either specifically "into" foreigners or are open to the idea.


This.

The less interest you show in pursuing women, the more attractive you become. And it doesn’t work the other way around. I don’t know why.

Now, you’re dealing with Taiwanese women, who, by and large, though not exactly an exotic species, are inherently unique nonetheless.

I’m glad you brought this up because I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently, though my train of thought has little to do with Taiwan. I’ve been thinking about cross-cultural relationships in general.

First of all, let’s draw a line in the sand. How old are you? You’re dealing with university-aged females. At 20, the average North American (both men and women) has pretty much run the gauntlet of what’s out there in the world. They’ve been around the block, however small and uninspiring. I’m not saying they are “smart” or “mature” by any stretch of imagination. I’m just saying they don’t need Urban Dictionary to explain what FDAU means. And if you ask them out, they’ll give you a yes or a no.

Every now and then in the dating game, you run into a game-player who gives you the business, but more often than not, a Western girl lays her cards on the table when you make the call. That’s why it’s so easy to get laid back home. I know all you wise-crakcers say that we single white male expats came to Taiwan because “we couldn’t get laid at home”, and I’m here to tell you (A) Fuck off, and (B) If I couldn’t get laid at home, the last goddamn place I’d go is Taiwan. Have you ever looked at a map? Do you see Thailand and the Philippines, and hell, even China? Sex is falling from the trees in those places.

It doesn’t work that way here. Unless you want to go the pay-for-play route, and let the buyer beware. Taiwan is incredibly pricey for average merchandise and poor customer service.

The average 20-year-old Taiwanese university girl still lives with her parents, has never had a job, might have had sex with a boyfriend, and despite having done a bit of overseas traveling, is overwhelmingly clueless about the world at large. It ain’t their fault, that’s just the way it is. But many are absolutely horrified and intrigued by the idea of getting involved with a foreigner. What they know about foreign men they’ve learned in Hollywood movies. For a lot of them, they are hoping at best for a Ryan Gosling, but there’s nothing but Woody Harrelsons running around.

Other posters have made relevant points in this area. For a Taiwanese woman, dating/mating/marrying a foreigner is akin to getting a tattoo. You’re marked for life. In the words of my boss, any woman who sleeps with a foreigner is “spoiled” and “tainted” and no Chinese man would have them from that point forward. And it goes even deeper into family, tradition, and culture. [Notice that my boss used the term “Chinese” to describe local men. He, like so many people, first and foremost, identifies as Chinese.]

You didn’t ask but I’ll tell you anyway. I dated Taiwanese women exclusively for the first two of my eight years here, and then I asked myself, “Why?” That’s all it took. And I dated women ages 20 to 40. While there were a few exceptions, most of them were intelligent, capable, curious, daring, and engaged in the world at large. That’s basically what it takes to make the jump from dating local dudes. However, I find Taiwanese culture as whole to be incredibly superficial, vapid, and banal. I’m not equivocating the two here. I’m just saying that we are all products of our particular culture(s).

Let’s ask some of our expat women in Taiwan about their experiences dating local men. How’s that working out for them?

So ask yourself, other than getting laid, why would you want to date Taiwanese women? Or in your case, Taiwanese girls, cuz that’s what they are.

Flame away, kids, but here’s my estimation. And I’d like to point out that as an expat married to a S.E. Asian woman, I have a charter plane full of acquaintances who will tell you the exact same thing. Generally speaking, except in cases of extraordinary aberration, a Taiwanese woman at 21 is on a mental and emotional par with a 12-year-old Western girl. This is because they incredibly sheltered and not availed many of the experiences Western women are by now, inured to. Sure, some local girls are serious players - but only on their home turf. They honestly can't hang with a 30-year-old dude from Southern California or wherever. And I’d say the 21-to-12 ratio/trend continues up until the age of 28 or so. By the time they reach 30, they kind of get the game, but by no means ready to go pro.

The older I get, the more I realize that motivation is everything. What do you have to offer another human being, and just as importantly, vice versa? I mean, you’re here, and they’re here, so it makes it your time together, but vegetarians don’t start eating steak just because they move to Texas. At least, not the ones committed to being vegetarian. What do you think you are going to get out of dating university girls? Answer that question and you may find a path to the root of your problem.
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby kaikai34 » 08 Mar 2016, 14:18

What happened to the LIKE button? I think 21/12 is a bit of a stretch. In my experience it's about a 4 or 5 year gap.
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Re: What am I doing wrong here?

Postby hsinhai78 » 08 Mar 2016, 15:30

super_lucky wrote:
finley wrote:
I suspect that the word is out: you're just going after everyone in a serial manner.

Yeah, I was wondering about that :) You need to expand your social circle somehow; or at least wait for the women to show interest first.

best_intentions wrote:The majority of Taiwanese women don't "want" to date a foreigner, but there is a huge pool of women out there that do. Okcupid will get you tons of dates (and perhaps even love) and most are very open or exclusively want to find a foreigner.

This might be a factor. It's not racism as such. It's just that people have their preferences, and dating a person from your own culture is comfortable and familiar.

Definitely worth trying online dating. You'll waste an awful lot of time on bullshit (fake profiles, profiles that have been abandoned, etc) but there are some interesting people out there who are either specifically "into" foreigners or are open to the idea.


This.

The less interest you show in pursuing women, the more attractive you become. And it doesn’t work the other way around. I don’t know why.

Now, you’re dealing with Taiwanese women, who, by and large, though not exactly an exotic species, are inherently unique nonetheless.

I’m glad you brought this up because I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently, though my train of thought has little to do with Taiwan. I’ve been thinking about cross-cultural relationships in general.

First of all, let’s draw a line in the sand. How old are you? You’re dealing with university-aged females. At 20, the average North American (both men and women) has pretty much run the gauntlet of what’s out there in the world. They’ve been around the block, however small and uninspiring. I’m not saying they are “smart” or “mature” by any stretch of imagination. I’m just saying they don’t need Urban Dictionary to explain what FDAU means. And if you ask them out, they’ll give you a yes or a no.

Every now and then in the dating game, you run into a game-player who gives you the business, but more often than not, a Western girl lays her cards on the table when you make the call. That’s why it’s so easy to get laid back home. I know all you wise-crakcers say that we single white male expats came to Taiwan because “we couldn’t get laid at home”, and I’m here to tell you (A) Fuck off, and (B) If I couldn’t get laid at home, the last goddamn place I’d go is Taiwan. Have you ever looked at a map? Do you see Thailand and the Philippines, and hell, even China? Sex is falling from the trees in those places.

It doesn’t work that way here. Unless you want to go the pay-for-play route, and let the buyer beware. Taiwan is incredibly pricey for average merchandise and poor customer service.

The average 20-year-old Taiwanese university girl still lives with her parents, has never had a job, might have had sex with a boyfriend, and despite having done a bit of overseas traveling, is overwhelmingly clueless about the world at large. It ain’t their fault, that’s just the way it is. But many are absolutely horrified and intrigued by the idea of getting involved with a foreigner. What they know about foreign men they’ve learned in Hollywood movies. For a lot of them, they are hoping at best for a Ryan Gosling, but there’s nothing but Woody Harrelsons running around.

Other posters have made relevant points in this area. For a Taiwanese woman, dating/mating/marrying a foreigner is akin to getting a tattoo. You’re marked for life. In the words of my boss, any woman who sleeps with a foreigner is “spoiled” and “tainted” and no Chinese man would have them from that point forward. And it goes even deeper into family, tradition, and culture. [Notice that my boss used the term “Chinese” to describe local men. He, like so many people, first and foremost, identifies as Chinese.]

You didn’t ask but I’ll tell you anyway. I dated Taiwanese women exclusively for the first two of my eight years here, and then I asked myself, “Why?” That’s all it took. And I dated women ages 20 to 40. While there were a few exceptions, most of them were intelligent, capable, curious, daring, and engaged in the world at large. That’s basically what it takes to make the jump from dating local dudes. However, I find Taiwanese culture as whole to be incredibly superficial, vapid, and banal. I’m not equivocating the two here. I’m just saying that we are all products of our particular culture(s).

Let’s ask some of our expat women in Taiwan about their experiences dating local men. How’s that working out for them?

So ask yourself, other than getting laid, why would you want to date Taiwanese women? Or in your case, Taiwanese girls, cuz that’s what they are.

Flame away, kids, but here’s my estimation. And I’d like to point out that as an expat married to a S.E. Asian woman, I have a charter plane full of acquaintances who will tell you the exact same thing. Generally speaking, except in cases of extraordinary aberration, a Taiwanese woman at 21 is on a mental and emotional par with a 12-year-old Western girl. This is because they incredibly sheltered and not availed many of the experiences Western women are by now, inured to. Sure, some local girls are serious players - but only on their home turf. They honestly can't hang with a 30-year-old dude from Southern California or wherever. And I’d say the 21-to-12 ratio/trend continues up until the age of 28 or so. By the time they reach 30, they kind of get the game, but by no means ready to go pro.

The older I get, the more I realize that motivation is everything. What do you have to offer another human being, and just as importantly, vice versa? I mean, you’re here, and they’re here, so it makes it your time together, but vegetarians don’t start eating steak just because they move to Texas. At least, not the ones committed to being vegetarian. What do you think you are going to get out of dating university girls? Answer that question and you may find a path to the root of your problem.



wow...likely the soundest advice I have read in this forum. I want the like button back. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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