Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby Mr He » 11 Jan 2010, 17:31

Satellite TV wrote:
Maybe the post should be how some fathers feel towards other peoples daughters. It's a two way street. Nobody once asked the OP does his family support him if he wanted to move to Taiwan? How would they feel not being able to see their son often if he moved to Taiwan.

Well you see I do have it flipped around, I am that semi educated father, business owner that makes a modest living, has nearly 19 year old child who may leave Taiwan to be with partner. :ponder:

So yes I think I do have some understanding of what Taiwanese fathers feel for their children. :shocker: :shocker:

Nobody wants to see their childrens marriage end in divorce.


Well, if you want to have your culture accomodated to by the inlaws, you have to educate them. Most Taiwanese in their 50's and 60's don't have a clue. But then, even well -educated western parents will not have a cluse about how Chinese/Taiwanese culture works anyways.

The most important thing remains your GF. The rest can be handled with some ease if she's on the side of you staying together.
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby economy ah » 12 Jan 2010, 04:06

Satellite TV wrote:
economy ah wrote:In matters of the heart one should be decisive, or at least seen to be decisive. Don’t pussyfoot around. It is not as if your love for her depends on how you get on with her parents, I presume. And who is going to dominate her life in the longer term? Most likely you and your children.

Concerning the language point, when a prospective father in law says something like that, he means much more than literally being able to speak Mandarin. He is worried and curious about whether you will ever really be able to understand Chinese and Taiwan customs, culture and etiquette. He almost certainly regards this as an important prerequisite for marrying his daughter and joining the family. Do what you can to show him that you have some understanding of these things.


Will the family show the OP respect by trying to understand English and UK customs, culture and etiquette?

After all the family do not own the daughter. How do you expect the OP to undertsand Taiwan's customs unless he lives here. Even people who have been here for a long time don't always understand them very well.


I suppose that the family might try to understand English customs etc., but I doubt that the OP would expect it. If he is still around perhaps he could tell us?

If things go well, I would expect that the OP could learn a lot from his girl, and yes, perhaps he should spend some time in Taiwan. A match-maker/go-between/interlocutor could be quite helpful in sorting all these things out, maybe? Or the use of one could cause additional friction. It is difficult to know, without having more info.
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby bismarck » 13 Jan 2010, 01:59

I got bored somewhere on page two as the thread started to unravel, as sometimes happens here...

But, from what I read, page one had the best advice and Maoman's assessment of the posts thus far was spot on. I also think Jaboney gave you the best advice you're going to get here.

For my part I'll just say this:
1. Stay in the UK. Your life, career and your home is there. If you get married and have kids, the last thing you want to do is put your kids through the school system here. This is a huge problem for me in the future. I want my son to play sports in the afternoons and for the family to all be home by 5pm and have dinner together at 7pm. But at this stage (and for the foreseeable future) this isn't going to be possible.
I love Taiwan, I love the people and I have no problem with the culture. Some things irritate me, for sure, but back home there were way more things that pissed me off and to a much greater extent. The points I've already mentioned are all that really concerns me here. As a result, I'll say here what I've told my wife on a few occasions. IMVHO Taiwan is heaven for young single guys, but it's far from ideal for married guys with a family. Many here won't agree with me regarding this, but... :idunno: to each his own.

2. If you get married all you owe her family (if anything at all) would be a once a year or once every two years visit during Chinese New Year. And, they could always come visit you guys there in the UK.

3. Asked my wife about what she thought and she said, "I think it is the girl's family's fault. Maybe they don't like foreigners, maybe they don't want her to live far away. But I think if he (the OP) comes to Taiwan they will have more problems."
btw, I have a great relationship with my wife's family. About 16 months ago we moved into the same apartment block to be closer to her mother for various reasons. We are moving out this month to a house sufficiently far away - It was my wife's idea because she has come to think that it is better for us (for many of the reasons that several posters have already mentioned) not to live so close to family.

In short, if I could I'd move back home to give my son a better school going experience, although I would probably move back here after he finished high school/university. However, I want him to also have a solid grounding in Mandarin and Taiwanese, so I'm hoping to have things set up to do just that after he finishes primary school here. But if you have opportunities in the UK for Mandarin schooling (Saturday Chinese classes or Chinese at a primary school) that isn't even an issue. We have a Chinese school in Pretoria (South Africa) but it is hugely expensive and would make an international school in Taiwan look cheap by comparison.

At the end of the day, don't give up a good thing for what could potentially end in abject disaster. :2cents:

Good luck with whichever way you choose to go.
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Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby riggers » 13 Jan 2010, 21:53

Hi, thanks for the replies. I think it needs clarifying that I would not consider moving there to please the mother in law in any way. I would consider moving there for my GF. Our life is cool here, but can be safely put on hold to try Taiwan , if it went tits up we could return, i could get my job back. My house i can rent out.

There are opportunities in Taiwan for us that we don't have here. My gf could get a better job there than here. So its not all sacrifice to go there.

I was really wondering, would there attitude change if we did go there. My GF does want to go there.

Cheers
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby Mr He » 13 Jan 2010, 22:37

riggers wrote: Hi, thanks for the replies. I think it needs clarifying that I would not consider moving there to please the mother in law in any way. I would consider moving there for my GF. Our life is cool here, but can be safely put on hold to try Taiwan , if it went tits up we could return, i could get my job back. My house i can rent out.


Well in that case I might just give it a try.

riggers wrote: There are opportunities in Taiwan for us that we don't have here. My gf could get a better job there than here. So its not all sacrifice to go there.


What would you be doing here? Does she have a job or is she still studying? Has she tried to work in the UK? Taiwanese is in many ways more traditional than the west, and in most cases, females have less of a career here than they have in the west.

Also, unless you are able to find a job here in Taiwan keeping you on whatever career track you are on, it would be a step back for you to come here. Think it through not just for her but also for you.

riggers wrote: I was really wondering, would there attitude change if we did go there. My GF does want to go there.


If you came back as Mr. and Mrs Riggers, it might just. Short of that, you will see the inlaws presenting a few Taiwanese eliglible bachelors for your GF hoping that she would get over her foreign affliction. This story has been presented quite a few times. It would be an issue, if she is easily influenced by her family.
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby Satellite TV » 14 Jan 2010, 02:17

riggers wrote: So its not all sacrifice to go there.


Oh yes it is. You have no idea about the sacrifices you are going to make to come here. It's nothing like what you can imagine. Visiting is one thing, moving here is another.

How long do you think it takes to settle in? Maybe 6 - 10 years on average.

The average wage for someone like your GF might be 500 pounds a month, a thousand if she was really exceptional, which let us tell you, is more likely not to be the case as there are thousands of Taiwanese who have studied abroad struggling back here. Her family don't like you already and will do their damnest to split you apart.

Taiwan has been mired in a recession for years. Most of the Expats there were employed here have been replaced by locals. Salaries are depressed for job seekers. You might come here and be lucky to make a thousand quid a month teaching English.

Your job in the UK I am sure won't wait that long. Neither will your relationship with your GF.

Following pussy and your heart might sound like fun at the time. Reality is often different.

I should know. :wink:
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby bismarck » 14 Jan 2010, 03:18

riggers wrote:Hi, thanks for the replies. I think it needs clarifying that I would not consider moving there to please the mother in law in any way. I would consider moving there for my GF. Our life is cool here, but can be safely put on hold to try Taiwan , if it went tits up we could return, i could get my job back. My house i can rent out.

Looks ok, on paper...
As long as you wont be giving up everything without a hope of getting back where you left off, it may be worth a go. However...

riggers wrote:There are opportunities in Taiwan for us that we don't have here. My gf could get a better job there than here. So its not all sacrifice to go there.

She might, but what would you be doing? Teaching English? That gets old quick and there's not that much money to be made anymore. Without knowing all your details, my feeling is you would be sacrificing your career for a nominal improvement in hers (If any at all, at least financially, because Taiwanese girls who studied abroad are fairly common here and they don't do as well as you'd think - I work with several Taiwanese who studied up to masters and doctoral level in the UK or North America and they earn less than I do and my salary is by no means stellar. In fact, financially, I would've been much better off if I'd stayed in the SA Navy...), whereas she would probably be able to do just fine in the UK, and in time might do much better than she could ever hope to do here.

Furthermore, if you do move back here with her, what would the goal be? How long would you stay (even if things with her family improve)? Because if she's that keen on coming back here, once back you're going to have a devil of a time convincing her to return to the UK.

Here are two threads that might be interesting to you and that I suggest you peruse. Their stories aren't unique, by a long shot, but they're two good ones I can remember. Have a gander and make sure you know what you may be getting yourself into:
How is my son going to be, growing up in Taiwan without me ?
MrsHill. Too much info. Break-up.
Ironically, both OPs are from the UK...

riggers wrote:I was really wondering, would there attitude change if we did go there.

Attitude change from whom? Her or her parents?
Depending on her relationship with her parents, regardless of the status of your relationship (married or not) there is a very real chance that her attitude may change. And I suspect it wont be for the better. From personal experience I've gotten the distinct impression that guys who have met their Taiwanese wives in Taiwan have had a much higher success rate thatn the poor sods who met them in their home countries and followed them to Taiwan. This is, of course, a feeling based on nothing but what I've read here over the years, and from what I've experienced personally and with friends on this island. There are guys here who met their Taiwanese wives abroad and followed them here and been very happy, as well as guys who met their wives here only to get divorced and face huge difficulties regarding settlements and/or children. However, it has been my personal experience that guys who have met their wives abroad (studying or working) in their home countries and followed them here have usually had their expectations dashed, their hearts ripped out and their dignity trashed.

I don't know you or your girlfriend and there's no knowing what will happen, but I'd hate to be reading a thread by you in a few years time similiar to the two I posted above.

As far as her parents are concerned, here or back in the UK, I don't think their attitude towards you will improve much, if at all. Again, I have experienced some cases where the in-laws have come around after initial misgivings, but that has been the very small minority in terms of exceptions to the general rule of it only getting worse, married or not. As one poster above noted, their is a very real chance that her parents will flaunt possible suitors they deem appropriate right in front of you with no thought as to how you may feel about it. I remember a poster on this board mentioning that happening to him on several occasions even after he had married his Taiwanese girlfriend and fathered a child with her.

riggers wrote:My GF does want to go there.

Cheers

Sure, but will she ever want to return once you guys have come to Taiwan? Will it really only be for a few years?

Personally (and this is really just my personal feeling, nothing else) I get a very bad feeling about all of this. I can't honestly see it turning out well for you in any way or form. That said, I could be wrong.
If you are hell bent on accommodating her and coming out here with her I'd advise this: Hope for the best, but expect nothing and plan for the worst possible outcome. Make sure that whatever happens you are protected and can return home and continue your life where you left off. A little wiser, perhaps, but none the worse for wear.
And if there is ever any talk of children, make it clear that if the relationship is to go that way your agreement should be to return to the UK before any children are included in the relationship.
A break up, or a divorce is peanuts compared to a divorce with kids where you are muscled out of all and any rights and forced to leave the country without any hope of ever seeing your child again. Sure, this may seem far fetched now, but if you are serious enough to uproot yourself from your home and your career to follow a woman half way around the world, you at least want to give these possible scenarios some consideration.

Whatever you decide, or whatever happens, I wish you all the best. I know some of us (me included) may come off as a cynical bunch, but we've seen these things happen way to many times. It's even happened to a few of us. Keep your wits about you, mate, and best of luck. :thumbsup:
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Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby riggers » 14 Jan 2010, 03:48

Satellite TV wrote:
riggers wrote: So its not all sacrifice to go there.


Oh yes it is. How long do you think it takes to settle in? Maybe 6 - 10 years on average.

Her family don't like you already and will do their damnest to split you apart.

Taiwan has been mired in a recession for years. Most of the Expats there were employed here have been replaced by locals. Salaries are depressed for job seekers. You might come here and be lucky to make a thousand quid a month teaching English.

Your job in the UK I am sure won't wait that long. Neither will your relationship with your GF.

Following pussy and your heart might sound like fun at the time. Reality is often different.

I should know. :wink:


Mate, we have been together several years now, its hardly a case of following the pussy. My job will be fine to wait for the length of time it will take to give taiwan a go. If i stayed 10 years i could come back and get a job straight away, I am lucky in that regard.

There are opportunities available to us that are not there for us in the UK, that much is certain.

If i cannot settle, we will come back.

Though I do read what you guys say with trepidation.
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby Mr He » 14 Jan 2010, 08:29

riggers wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:
riggers wrote: So its not all sacrifice to go there.


Oh yes it is. How long do you think it takes to settle in? Maybe 6 - 10 years on average.

Her family don't like you already and will do their damnest to split you apart.

Taiwan has been mired in a recession for years. Most of the Expats there were employed here have been replaced by locals. Salaries are depressed for job seekers. You might come here and be lucky to make a thousand quid a month teaching English.

Your job in the UK I am sure won't wait that long. Neither will your relationship with your GF.

Following pussy and your heart might sound like fun at the time. Reality is often different.

I should know. :wink:


Mate, we have been together several years now, its hardly a case of following the pussy. My job will be fine to wait for the length of time it will take to give taiwan a go. If i stayed 10 years i could come back and get a job straight away, I am lucky in that regard.

There are opportunities available to us that are not there for us in the UK, that much is certain.

If i cannot settle, we will come back.

Though I do read what you guys say with trepidation.


All the best to you - I would still think it through, perhaps get married first, and then live a year or 2 in the UK as a married couple. That way, you mark off your patch in relation to her family.

If you want to have opportunities here in Taiwan apart from teaching English, the following is key:

1. Have lots of experience and a background which is in demand here. If you don't, your competition in the job market will be locals willing to work for 700GBP per month.

2. In order to work well in a generalized job such as sales etc. at least some understanding of the local lingo is good. I have done better here than I would have done back home, however I got an MA in Chinese, with a minor in business. The jobs I could get (apart from my finance gig) paid in general GBP1200 per month. That was some 50% above the locals doing the same job, but still, the budget was tight.

As I was tired of working in jobs with poor pay, lots of pressure from Taiwanese bosses (in general horrible), and not great career prospects, I ended up setting up a company on my own, however again, that took some time to get properly going.

3. No matter what you do, I would strongly - and I mean strongly - suggest that you and your GF live together and at least some 50km away from the inlaws from the getgo. If your GF comes back to be with her mother, you might end up living alone in a flat somewhere, while she is with her parents. Expect them to be busy line up siutable local suitors for her, as mentioned previously. Also, expect her to be under a lot of pressure to give you the slip. She might be strong enough to handle it, but at the very least I would turn up here as their son in law.

Not all Taiwanese families have issues with getting a foreign son in law, btw. My first set of Taiwan outlaws tried to protest, but my ex wife would have none of that. My current set of outlaws was split over the issue, however my wife's mind was set in stone over that issue. A few of the posters here have their own horror stories, though.
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Re: Inlaws don't like me - advice / opinions needed

Postby Satellite TV » 14 Jan 2010, 17:03

riggers wrote:Mate, we have been together several years now, its hardly a case of following the pussy. My job will be fine to wait for the length of time it will take to give taiwan a go. If i stayed 10 years i could come back and get a job straight away, I am lucky in that regard. There are opportunities available to us that are not there for us in the UK, that much is certain. If i cannot settle, we will come back. Though I do read what you guys say with trepidation.


I have been here 21 years. Many others here have been here 10 years. In all reality it is not easy moving to a new country. You never know that your jobs skills that you have now cannot be put to good use here.

Anywys if you are flexible, determined, stubborn, and don't give a toss about what others think you should be doing then you can make a pretty good life for yourself here. You might be able to start your own business with your current skill set.
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