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Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Pingdong » 17 Jan 2012, 23:47

yes, I agree. and no I have not forgotten that these animals create food (often at great expense to their quality of life which is hwy I have a hard time sympathizing for animal farmers in many areas). Sure, pigs, cattle and most chicken farmers don't let them run amok. Other animals i couldn't agree with, notably goats. but that's not here nor there, my issue is with torture. I am against the caging of dogs, that said I am also against the caging of pigs and chickens!

I am all hands on deck if you have a battle plan my friend, I am jsut honestly not sure how it can work here. I am not dragging my feet I am just simply out of ideas. You do the register thing and all that is well and good, but then more things suffer. I am more into an animal dieing a gruesome death within a few mins than an animal dieing a gruesome painful death over 10 years, that's what I'm all on about.

If you don't, then be prepared for farmers to be pissed off and you have no right to go bleating about how they trapped/poisoned a maruading dog or cat to defend themselves against a situation that is not of their making.


I have every right, and i will exercise it til my dieing day :) I do not do much other than help people helping injured animals and try and talk to students about how to care for animals etc. Not enough, probably. But I, like many, dont knwo what to do. we are ignorant, I read your post and agree, but we all now what needs to be done but most lack the ability to actually get it done in Taiwan in a smooth fashion. So again, traps and poison are horrible shit, and should not be used, you cant give me a good excuse to use them. It better to take a sledge hammer to back of their head, at least thats fast.

last month my wifes parents dog (our dogs brother) was killed with rat poison. its a roamer, I have for years taleked to them here to not let them roam, to not cage them etc. You have been here a while it seems, so you know how the metnailty is here, maybe more than I do. the best success I have had is getting htem to take their dogs (at their pig farm) out of the small steel cages, i told them I don't want to visit them if I have to be aroudn that. so that got the dogs about 3m of leg room on a leash to a pole. its a sad state.

3 days ago one of my students told me her dog died from rat poisons (right by where my dogs brother got it). as it turns out there is a biter old fuck who hates dogs, a lot. so he sets out rat poison, her fly has looked and found a couple hidden along the road. An anonymous tip with his info has been sent. but in an area where police are only good for bottling snakes in alcohol and handing out tickets to anybody they don't know the 2 times a year they actually put up a road block, you cant expect much.


so, once again........ I say, you ideas are all right, but they cannot (or should not i should say) be put into effect until other forms of animal cruelty are addressed. And if the government bans cages for dogs, then there is a bit of hypocrisy on why they should not ban it for pigs/fowl. And you and I both know that is an impossibility on todays agenda. Not saying dont try, just saying the order of operation needs adjusting because we all know the reality of what will happen, lets not lie to ourselves. probably over 90% of all chickens farmed here are already in shitty tiny little pens living a painful, chemical filled life just hating to wake up the next morning. so do we really want to not only do this to birds and pigs, but also add dogs to this liost (more than is already done I mean)?

throwing money at it wont do shit, not here. they will have a bigger budget, sure. Do you honestly feel this will be used to protect the feelingsof animals? Really...
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 18 Jan 2012, 01:20

Ok, that's a good post Pingdong.

One morning a couple of weeks ago, i woke up and went down to feed my chickens and found that during the night one or more dogs had dug under the fence. I was greeted with the sight of the yard strewn with feathers and blood and guts and body pieces of four dead chickens with another two missing. After i cleaned up, i came back up to the house and got onto Forumosa and started typing. And yeah, I was pissed off and looking for a fight. I do know that a lot of foriegners here refuse to restrain their dogs (despite my efforts to get them to do so), so i deliberately went onto this thread knowing I would get an argument with some foreigner dog owners.
I do regret maintaining that rage for as long as i did - far longer than i intended - but the nature of discussion forums is that things can escalate. What i perceived to be an attack on aborigines, rightly or wrongly, didn't help matters as many of my good friends here are tribal people.

Whatever, at the end of the day, maybe we have both got a better understanding of each other's positions, and I do hope that the reforms (that actually we all pretty much agree on), can soon be implemented. Taiwan is my home now, so I do try to remain optimistic that changes can be made for the better.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 18 Jan 2012, 20:15

Taiwan Animal SOS wrote:DD, I'm enjoying and agreeing with your posts a lot more now your (seeming but understandable) anger has subsided. Just one point, though, regarding live traps for dogs, we use them a lot for catching dogs (and cats) in need of rescue or neutering, and we find them effective about 75 percent of the time.


Thanks SOS. Regarding the live trap - it didn't work for me - and i tried it off and on for a couple of months. The only explanation i can think of is that the dogs are more wary here. Someone mentioned that dogs can't read private property signs - and you will think (well, you already thought, now you will know) I am nuts - but I believe they can! Not read obviously, but they do seem to know quite well that this is someone's property and what they are doing on it is very naughty because when they are prowling around, they will run off the second they see me. Which is a another wise move on their part.

I do admire positive action as a general rule and as such i applaud the work (and i assume it is volunteer) that you are doing to de-sex dogs as that's something that will make a difference in Taiwan.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Mucha Man » 18 Jan 2012, 20:34

Dulan, are you btw, selling your chickens or eggs outside of the local market?
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

https://www.facebook.com/taiwantemples
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 18 Jan 2012, 22:19

Mucha Man wrote:Dulan, are you btw, selling your chickens or eggs outside of the local market?


Not unless i expand production, which I would like to (if those bloody dogs would...
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Pingdong » 20 Jan 2012, 00:59

are you fenced? those chain link that have a concrete footing work excellent, dogs wont get through unless theres a crack/break (or flood).
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby jimipresley » 20 Jan 2012, 01:07

Lookit how NICE these here fellers is speakin' to each other now. REAL nice! Ahm's gettin' a real warm feelin' in mah tummy. :bravo:
You can live here and have a great life and not be the least bit into living the local life. Clowns will try to diss you for it saying you gotta get down with the program, but fuck em, treat this place like a buffet and yous be on a diet. Take what you want and nothing extra, slam those oysters, but leave the bread sticks and dinner rolls behind. - Deuce Dropper

I'm much more of a nasty rotter in real life, especially with vapid or vacuous verbiage from the ill read & intellectually challenged. - TheGingerMan

Don't be a cheap cunt. - Deuce Dropper
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Ex Animo » 20 Jan 2012, 01:17

Piss off, Presley.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 20 Jan 2012, 10:45

Pingdong wrote:are you fenced? those chain link that have a concrete footing work excellent, dogs wont get through unless theres a crack/break (or flood).


My current fence consists of chicken wire with a base of rocks. It does the job 99% of the time, but as i mentioned before, it's like the Night of the Zombies - they are always out there probing for a weakness - a a bit of a washout from a downpour for example and they're in. Additionally, after the latest breach, i now lock the chickens up at night in their coop or whenever I am away.
I am planning to build a zoo-like fence around my entire property with the goal of creating a chicken and wildlife sanctuary, but that ain't cheap .
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Ex Animo » 20 Jan 2012, 11:59

Have you thought about playing the dogs at their own game and getting a guardian-breed dog to protect the chickens? It would be the perfect solution! I'd be happy to help you look for a suitable dog to adopt. There's some great info in the links in the quote below.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080110094809AATcvVl

You don't want a HERDING breed, you want a GUARDIAN breed, there's a huge difference.

Herding breeds (Collies, Shepherds, etc. - Herding Group in the AKC) are meant to drive stock from one place to another, working in tandem with the stockdrover. Leave a herding dog alone with the stock, and the herding dog may harry the stock to death by constantly moving them from place to place. It's what they do, and what they're bred for.

Guarding breeds (Great Pyr, Anatolian, Akbash, Maremma, Kuvasz, Komondor - they're classified as Working Group in the AKC) are meant to live with the stock and protect it from predators. They have been bred for this for thousands of years in some cases, and the "prey drive" instinct that so many other breeds have is severely controlled in these breeds.

http://www.lgd.org

Here is a specific article about Livestock Guard Dogs (LGDs) and Poultry:

http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm

If you go with an LGD, a couple of words:

1) Get in touch with someone who owns an LGD (particularly a poultry LGD) for tips and information. It's not like owning a pet dog, and there are certain techniques used to acclimate the dog to the stock - and vice-versa.

2) Consider contacting an LGD rescue group to see if they have any working dogs who need a working home who would work with poultry. That may not be an option because none are available, but with the number of small farms going under and the number of working LGDs needing homes, this is always my first recommendation - working LGDs usually don't transition well to pet homes.

3) If you go to a breeder, go to a REPUTABLE breeder of WORKING LGDs, and get recommendations from other LGD owners about where to go. If possible find someone who breeds LGDs and trains them to work with poultry already, so the pups will have some foreknowledge in puppyhood that these are not feathery chew toys. Don't skimp on this, because you're trusting this dog with your stock's lives, and you don't want to cheap-out on the price of a dog and pay for it with the lives of your stock.

I'm really, really scared by the number of people who are saying "Any breed of dog is okay to leave unattended with a bunch of poultry, you just have to train 'em right."
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