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Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Pingdong » 20 Jan 2012, 20:02

that thought came to mind as well, lots of farmers here do that. but they are always either tied, caged or free roaming.

How big is your land? our farm is a touch over 2 fen and when i priced it out it would cost me about $55k in material. that was a while ago though.

if you are in it for the long run and own the land I would personally fence it right. dig a trench down about a foot stick posts every XX feet instal wire fence and pour concrete up the fence a foot or so. super strong, i see it done a lot now here and man the only way in is over...or floods, which little will stop anyway. I was going to build it as well, but I don't farm animals and i figured it wasn't worth protecting as dogs do very little damage to plant farms around here. though every chicken farm I have seen is fenced/walled and also has (often many) guard dogs.

your idea of a sanctuary sounds like a nice one :) Be perfect to let a dog or chickens roam in safety, but even pet dogs kill.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby finley » 20 Jan 2012, 23:25

Have you thought about playing the dogs at their own game and getting a guardian-breed dog to protect the chickens? It would be the perfect solution! I'd be happy to help you look for a suitable dog to adopt. There's some great info in the links in the quote below.

I suggested that a few pages back (along with half a dozen other practical suggestions - most people keeping animals install electric fences) but I get the feeling DD wants to do things his way. If it doesn't work, that's someone else's fault. :idunno:
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 21 Jan 2012, 02:02

Taiwan Animal SOS wrote:Have you thought about playing the dogs at their own game and getting a guardian-breed dog to protect the chickens? It would be the perfect solution! I'd be happy to help you look for a suitable dog to adopt. There's some great info in the links in the quote below.


thanks for that SOS - the old 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' syang fa. I have thought of it, and your post was good because it does mention that not every dog is suited to the job, and if I do go down that path, then i will definitely choose one of the recommended breeds.

finley wrote:I suggested that a few pages back (along with half a dozen other practical suggestions - most people keeping animals install electric fences) but I get the feeling DD wants to do things his way. If it doesn't work, that's someone else's fault. :idunno:

yeah, yours mainly. You're not dyslexic are you? 'Dog' is not 'God', you know.

Pingdong wrote:How big is your land? our farm is a touch over 2 fen and when i priced it out it would cost me about $55k in material. that was a while ago though.


your idea of a sanctuary sounds like a nice one :) Be perfect to let a dog or chickens roam in safety, but even pet dogs kill.


Including remote control sliding gate at the entrance, I was quoted $400 000 - that's without the cement wall. That makes each egg pretty expensive. That's ok, I have through bitter experience realized that that's the price of producing free range chickens in the ROC-D (Republic of Cats and Dogs), and that's exactly what I am working towards.

As much as you guys love cats and dogs, i love native animals - and I would like to use my land as a small piece of reclaimed space for them. And once I get that fence, SOS, I would be very keen on taking in any injured, native wildlife whose rehabilitation would be suited to what i can provide.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby formosahut » 23 Jan 2012, 16:23

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to post this to viewtopic.php?f=21&t=105905&start=230. I've moved it.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby jimipresley » 23 Jan 2012, 16:43

Hmm: "culture". I love that term. The reason why we respectfully accept the moronic idiocy of others.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby tango42 » 06 Mar 2013, 08:38

Recently saw 3 animals that all lost legs to steel traps within the last year (two dogs, one cat). Two in south Taiwan, one in north Taiwan. Guess the ban isn't being enforced and Pamela Anderson and PETA Asia-Pacific should recall their flowers.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby riggers » 07 Mar 2013, 22:25

Over the last decade Anatolians have been exported to Namibia and a breeding programme set up. They protect goats and other livestock from Cheetahs. Incredibly successfully. It has also helped save the Cheetah ( that's actually why the programme started ) as farmers no longer need to shoot them. They are also a beautiful dog. I'm sure they would solve your problem , but also add to your life in many other ways too.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 17 Mar 2013, 14:34

riggers wrote:Over the last decade Anatolians have been exported to Namibia and a breeding programme set up. They protect goats and other livestock from Cheetahs. Incredibly successfully. It has also helped save the Cheetah ( that's actually why the programme started ) as farmers no longer need to shoot them. They are also a beautiful dog. I'm sure they would solve your problem , but also add to your life in many other ways too.


Thanks for the tip, but I have since completed a zoo like fence around my property - it cost $400 000 to build - and that was doing a lot of the work myself - but unfortunately that's the price I had to pay to protect my free range poultry from Taiwan's free-range dogs. I previously had a chicken wire fence but that wasn't enough to prevent dogs from getting in. Anyway, that solves the problem for me, but my neighbour, a goat farmer, is losing lots of baby goats to a foreigner's dog. He had asked him to restrain his dogs on many occasions but he refused, insisting that his dogs needed to roam free. Finally the farmer was forced to call the police in order to get the dog owner to take action.

The antolian programme sounds interesting, though there is an important difference to the situation here. For one, the cheetah is an endangered, native animal whereas dogs are an out of control invasive species with numbers in plague proportions and they are taking a heavy toll on native wildlife populations and livestock. Ultimately, there is still only one real solution. Enforced de-sexing of all dogs unless you apply and pay for a breeders' license, and a program to force local dog owners to take repsonsibility for their dog packs, i.e: restrain them so that they are not out tearing your neighbour's animals from limb to limb. For me it's breathtaking arrogance and selfishness on the part of dog owners (many of whom are foreigners, in this area at least) for them to think that their pet has some special right to kill other people's animals. If you don't want to tie them up, then build a fence. If you don't want to do either, then you are not a fit person to own a dog.

Recently a foreigner with free range dogs was saying that if he was a chicken farmer, then he would give a dog owner three chances to correct his behaviour if his flock was being slaughtered by dog attacks (and bear in mind that they don't just kill one - they will kill five or six in one go) before taking action. I then asked him that if I had a pit bull terrier that liked fighting and killing other dogs (and of course I would want it to roam 'free' because I wouldn't want to curtail its 'natural spirit'), then how many of his dogs (he has 4) would he allow it to tear to pieces before he took action?

As for dogs getting caught in traps, that only happens because the dog owner is letting them run amok - if they are out where the traps are then most likely they are out on a hunt and kill mission. Control your dog, as you are legally required to do so, and as you have to do in every developed country in the world, and you will never have a problem with your dog getting caught in a trap. Never. Problem solved. No one will ever come onto your property and set a trap to catch your dog. I am forever seeing FB photos of someone's poor darling dog who has lost a foot to a trap and accompanying blah blah blah about how evil the local aborigines are. However, I have never seen any dog/cat owner post photos of the much more horrific sight of a defenceless animal that has been literally torn to bits by their dogs and cats. Somehow that's perfectly fine.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby Ex Animo » 18 Mar 2013, 06:23

I thought much of your post was great, but you incorrectly assume that all stray dogs have an owner, and therefore oversimplify the solution.
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Re: Taiwan Bans Steel-Jaw Traps

Postby dulan drift » 18 Mar 2013, 21:11

Ex Animo wrote:I thought much of your post was great, but you incorrectly assume that all stray dogs have an owner, and therefore oversimplify the solution.


You are right that not all stray dogs have owners, but most of the ones i see around here do because I know who owns them.

But even the non-owned dogs are there because of a lack of an enforced de-sexing system. Non-desexed owned dogs are actively roaming around and breeding (as you would) with either other owned dogs or non-owned dogs and this is the direct cause of the population explosion. I do know that you work to actively de-sex street dogs and i honestly admire your efforts on this because it's one of the root causes of the problem. And you're out there doing something about it. This is in no way aimed at you. Nor is it aimed at the dogs (they can't read for one thing). But the dog owners who refuse to restrain their dogs from free-ranging in farmlands.

And if the dog is a male, the owner will never even see the litter, it will be conveniently born in a moral blindspot, but make no mistake, young fido is out there prowling for sex and producing up to 20 more dogs each year - most of which will die of starvation. And the owner of this dog is 100% responsible for all those horrible deaths of the exact same animal they purport to love.

I am not arguing in favor of traps (though i can see the argument for aborigines living in the mountains being able to use them). Just pointing out that if you weigh one lost paw (traps are not usually fatal) against the pile of dead animals (including endangered native species) that have been viciously ripped to pieces (think Django) by that same dog in its lifetime, then you will see that there is a far bigger problem than traps for animal lovers to activate about.
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