Are you kidding me? Are you saying being lazy is an excuse to slaughter other people's stock and dig up their crops? In fact you say 'right or wrong' like it's a 'hang's in the balance' thing and it might well be 'right'.
Uncontrolled dogs kill far more animals than traps do. A few months ago, I went to visit a foreigner friend and she/he was boasting how many animals their cat kills '- at least one a night: lizards, moles, rats (though they are not your Taipei style rat - a native bush rat), birds, frogs, rhinoceros beetles, you name it.
So on the charge of you being responsible for the deaths of your neighbours' ('neighbour' - that word means something in farming communities) livesotck and countless defenseless native animals, the owners are pleading...what?
Oh, that's ok then
Neither can such an owner plead igonarance. Dogs and cats are well known to prey on animals smaller than them, and given that people on this forum have claimed that traps are set 'everywhere' then presumably they must be consciously aware that their action of letting their dog roam free will likely harm their own animal as well.
The only other possibility is that they do in fact, consciously, and arrogantly disrespect their neighbours' rights, and allow their pets to dig up their neighbours' crops and kill their chickens, ducks, baby goats, and countless native animals.
And then it's the poor old farmer who has been forced to take defensive measures against this low moral negligence that you brand as the real villain.
Pingdong wrote:Nope, not at all, I am simply pointing out a fact and the reality of the life here. when you set out traps/poison you are intentionally trying to torture and/or kill otehr animals. When you let a dog roam, you are not intentionally trying to harm something, you are being lazy. I am not saying this is right or wrong, jsut simply pointing out the fact and its fairly obvious the difference.
dulan drift wrote: In fact, dogs and cats are about the only animals that kill just for the fun of it. Cats will play with their poor victim for hours before finally killing it.
TheGingerMan wrote:dulan drift wrote: In fact, dogs and cats are about the only animals that kill just for the fun of it. Cats will play with their poor victim for hours before finally killing it.
Not fact at all. To name but one, ever seen footage of killer whales playing tennis with seals? Or how about eagles and owls, or even elephants?
TheGingerMan wrote:It's not so simple as saying that a dog or cat must be tied up and constrained. Can one teach them not to roam and kill? Surely such goes against all the laws of nature, which many of the limp-wristed would attempt to deny.
Obviously one can take some measures to constrain the killing instinct of our pets, but to deny it outright? Sheer folly to my mind.
Rather, the inevitable onus must lie on the shepherd to protect their flock from predators. This would seem such an obvious tactic used by generations of farmers that it would hardly warrant comment.
Might as well go for a soda, and let nature be natural.
dulan drift wrote:'Let nature be nature.' With that statement you've actually hit the nail right on the head. But I doubt you know why. The problem lies in our different definitions of 'nature'?
Although it's quite correct to say everything is natural - even pollution and rampant development - if it happens on earth then it's natural - for the purposes of this discussion I am using it in terms of the ‘natural state of an eco-system’. For example, in Australia, kangaroos are native animals, and therefore part of the natural eco-system. Rabbits, foxes, European carp on the other hand are introduced species (not natural within that eco-system) that have a negative impact on populations of native animals. As such, they upset the balance of nature.
So, for me, the point that you have made, 'let nature be nature' is an actual key to this whole discussion.
Dogs and domestic cats are not native animals in Taiwan.
Due to a lack of regulation, their populations (especially dogs) have been allowed to run out of control to the point where they are roaming freely around the countryside either singularly or in packs.
Given that both species are highly intelligent and skilled hunters, that creates a serious imbalance in nature.
Gman wrote:So where do humans fit in you definition of nature? I think the idea that there is any of the kind of 'balance of nature' you're talking about anywhere in Taiwan is pure ficton. But, is the topic of this discussion even really about feral dog populations but rather about the banning of a particullarly cruel and indiscriminate means of killing? Would live trapping for example, not be just as effective in achieving your ends?
dulan drift wrote:Obviously, as i mentioned, humans, through the clearing of habitat (and over hunting of the deer populations), have had a disastrous effect on the balance of nature in Taiwan. But I am an optimist, and so I don't throw my hands up and say that the idea that we could do something to redress this 'is pure fiction' - as you do - in fact it has been a common theme on this thread. In fact, there are things being done about it - the re-introduction of sika deer to the Kending National Park being one good example.
As for the topic being about steel traps and not free range dog farming - I was responding to several posters bleating about how terrible it was that 'stupid farmers' were setting traps to catch their dogs - as such I was just pointing out the simple truth that if regulations were tightened so that dog owners were faced with some kind of consequence for allowing their pets to maraud through farming communities, then the problem of them being caught in traps, or poisoned, or ending up as roadkill, or spreading disease, or rampantly breeding, or killing wildlife would virtually disappear overnight.
Traps designed to catch dogs are set on a farmer's own private property - no one ever comes onto your private property to set traps and catch your dog. They set them on their own private property. If your dog is not roaming through farming communities onto other people's private property, then your dog has absolutely nothing to fear from traps.
Banning traps treats the symptom at best. Treating the cause - dog owners allowing their unregistered pets to run amok - is the only way that the problem will be solved. And the thing is, it's dead easy to do. There are no excuses.
Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 0 guests