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Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby the bear » 30 Jun 2016, 13:35

super_lucky wrote:
finley wrote:The US military, AFAIK, attempts to reject actual psychopaths because they're loose cannons ... exactly like these assholes. People who do this sort of thing are a liability in an actual combat situation. Taiwan has a serious lack of professionalism in the military, by the looks of things.


Yes, but let's try and come up with a single function of society in which Taiwan exudes professionalism. Hell, the street cleaners are using hand-fashioned straw brooms, which, kudos on the resourcefulness, but gives off a particularly backwater and provincial vibe for the uninitiated, no? Meanwhile, I hear there's a cage match scheduled this afternoon in the Executive Yuan. Chen vs. Chang. Should be a real dust-up.

Anyway, I've personally witnessed countless incidences of prolonged maltreatment of animals at home and abroad and afar. The shit we see on a regular basis in the Philippines is comparable. Roll down any barangay street and see animals chained to walls with zero sun coverage. Strays crossing the street just daring someone to mow them down and end their misery. Squatters have virtual kennels of mutts that never leave a two square meter section of crumbling sidewalk for their entire lives.


yeah but that's the Philippines, just look at the dickhead they elected President. The point I tried to make above is that these guys are supposedly "highly educated" males from middle class families. These are not thugs from the ghetto. Something is seriously wrong for them to act this way and to think its cool.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby super_lucky » 30 Jun 2016, 14:30

the bear wrote:yeah but that's the Philippines, just look at the dickhead they elected President. The point I tried to make above is that these guys are supposedly "highly educated" males from middle class families. These are not thugs from the ghetto. Something is seriously wrong for them to act this way and to think its cool.


This implies that Taiwan is the superior civilization, which is certainly debatable but nowhere near set in stone, and would take us too far off-topic.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby Milkybar_Kid » 30 Jun 2016, 15:10

I've said this before and I'll probably end up saying this again: Taiwan needs to sort out its stray dog problem. How many more deaths of animals or even people for that matter need to occur for people to start taking this matter seriously?
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby abovik » 30 Jun 2016, 23:28

Exactly. How many more scooter accidents, car accidents. How many more floodings. How many more ... before they take it seriously?

Just read one article. Vietnam is prohibiting all motorbikes in its capital within 10 years. Can you? Taipei. Damn.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby finley » 30 Jun 2016, 23:31

abovik wrote:Exactly. How many more scooter accidents, car accidents. How many more floodings. How many more ... before they take it seriously?

Just read one article. Vietnam is prohibiting all motorbikes in its capital within 10 years. Can you? Taipei. Damn.


What's any of that got to do with the price of fish? I agree that strays should probably be humanely dealt with - TNR would do the trick - but since when did dogs cause floods?

And if Vietnam bans motorbikes there will simply be more cars, unless they have plans for advanced public transport.

super_lucky: in the Philippines, life isn't just cheap, it's worthless. That includes plant life and animal life. They aspire to failure and are proud of achieving it. The Taiwanese, generally speaking, are far more capable of introspection and self-correction. I hope the scumbags in the article are at least dishonorably discharged.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby abovik » 30 Jun 2016, 23:42

finley wrote:
abovik wrote:Exactly. How many more scooter accidents, car accidents. How many more floodings. How many more ... before they take it seriously?

Just read one article. Vietnam is prohibiting all motorbikes in its capital within 10 years. Can you? Taipei. Damn.


What's any of that got to do with the price of fish? I agree that strays should probably be humanely dealt with - TNR would do the trick - but since when did dogs cause floods?

And if Vietnam bans motorbikes there will simply be more cars, unless they have plans for advanced public transport.

super_lucky: in the Philippines, life isn't just cheap, it's worthless. That includes plant life and animal life. I hold the Taiwanese to higher standards because they're capable of it.


I was actually referring to flooding in TAO airport, haha. And tagging along milkybar_kid's comment.

Regarding Vietnam. Yeah, they will be building up the infrastructures for mass public transportations. Hence, the 10 year time period. Cars will be limited as well. I seriously don't see why Japan and Korea can live without motorbikes, yet Taipei can't.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby super_lucky » 01 Jul 2016, 10:20

abovik wrote:
finley wrote:
abovik wrote:Exactly. How many more scooter accidents, car accidents. How many more floodings. How many more ... before they take it seriously?

Just read one article. Vietnam is prohibiting all motorbikes in its capital within 10 years. Can you? Taipei. Damn.


What's any of that got to do with the price of fish? I agree that strays should probably be humanely dealt with - TNR would do the trick - but since when did dogs cause floods?

And if Vietnam bans motorbikes there will simply be more cars, unless they have plans for advanced public transport.

super_lucky: in the Philippines, life isn't just cheap, it's worthless. That includes plant life and animal life. I hold the Taiwanese to higher standards because they're capable of it.


I was actually referring to flooding in TAO airport, haha. And tagging along milkybar_kid's comment.

Regarding Vietnam. Yeah, they will be building up the infrastructures for mass public transportations. Hence, the 10 year time period. Cars will be limited as well. I seriously don't see why Japan and Korea can live without motorbikes, yet Taipei can't.


To answer the question of how many more ________ is it gonna take before _________ happens. Well, let's see... It would take somewhere around 23 million combined instances in order for everyone on the island to have personally experienced _________ which directly influenced their lives. So, for instance, how many dogs have to be hung before society starts taking animal welfare seriously? Every single dog owner and all their friends will have to be intrinsically affected by dog-related tragedies-slash-acts of inhumanity.

@finley: You know both Taiwan and the Philippines as well as I do. I'm not going to argue the value of life on either side. Sometimes I totally agree with your evaluation. Other times, I think, "Well, no..." But my hope always comes from within the family, particularly how certain members care for my son. What struck me in terms of your description of Taiwan as capable of introspection and self-correction, it sounds vaguely similar to an examination process. Generally speaking, as we know, they are fond of tests. I don't really see that as a social construct; in fact, it's almost anti-social. The main difference between here and there, IMHO - the H standing for "humble" - is religion. If any sort of Judeo-Christian godmongering had ever hit critical mass in Taiwan, this place would be un-fucking-bearable. My whole mindset and something I think about in airports: At least in Taiwan, I know that most people are not going to have some kind of scam up their sleeve. In PH, I can safely assume that everybody is going to try and jack me for something - it's just inherently Pinoy.

In the end, I think it's too easy for me to throw my arms up and say, "It's their world, I'm just livin' in it." But you can't make people care about shit without drawing blood from somewhere. It's gotta hit 'em. Otherwise, we're all just spinnin' our wheels over here.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby finley » 01 Jul 2016, 11:11

super_lucky wrote:@finley: You know both Taiwan and the Philippines as well as I do. I'm not going to argue the value of life on either side. Sometimes I totally agree with your evaluation. Other times, I think, "Well, no..." But my hope always comes from within the family, particularly how certain members care for my son. What struck me in terms of your description of Taiwan as capable of introspection and self-correction, it sounds vaguely similar to an examination process. Generally speaking, as we know, they are fond of tests. I don't really see that as a social construct; in fact, it's almost anti-social. The main difference between here and there, IMHO - the H standing for "humble" - is religion. If any sort of Judeo-Christian godmongering had ever hit critical mass in Taiwan, this place would be un-fucking-bearable. My whole mindset and something I think about in airports: At least in Taiwan, I know that most people are not going to have some kind of scam up their sleeve. In PH, I can safely assume that everybody is going to try and jack me for something - it's just inherently Pinoy.


At the risk of going a bit OT - and bear in mind that (a) I live in a part of the country that even Pinoys think is badly f'ed up and (b) I spent three years sleeping through psychology lectures and like to catch up on what I missed:

What struck me in terms of your description of Taiwan as capable of introspection and self-correction, it sounds vaguely similar to an examination process. Generally speaking, as we know, they are fond of tests. I don't really see that as a social construct; in fact, it's almost anti-social.


Not exactly. Introspection is the healthy reaction to shame. We all know Taiwanese people react badly to public shame, but private or self-generated shame produces the expected reaction: holding themselves up to certain standards and modifying their behavior. Consider Taiwan's bureaucracy, which looked pretty much like the Philippines in 1960 and has evolved into something world-class. Pressure from the top was obviously a factor, but this would not have worked if Taiwanese people didn't have that internal shame mechanism driving them to do better. Something similar happened in industry. And, in general, the process is ongoing. I'm papering over the cracks here - plenty of people sit in their blue cubicles playing with facebook or bullying their co-workers - but they're at the same modest background level of dysfunction you see in most offices.

In the Philippines, there are no standards held up as something to strive for. What happens today is by definition The Best of All Possible Worlds, because Filipinos built it. No improvement is possible or desirable. Therefore when people are shamed (or even feel atavistic twinges of self-generated shame), their natural reaction is: "But I did nothing wrong. There was no other course of action other than the one I took". The feeling is made to go away in the only way possible: by lashing out at the person responsible.

I would also say a good fraction of Filipinos (by no means a majority, but certainly way too many) have a serious personality disorder, somewhere on the BPD/NPD/psychopathy spectrum. The notable characteristics (in this context) are a complete lack of fear of consequences, including fear of bodily harm or death; inability to view others as living beings with thoughts and feelings; limited range of affect (emotions); emotional lability; black-and-white thinking; excessively positive assessment of personal abilities and importance. The relentless scamming in inevitable.

Filipinos basically rub along just fine as long as their preprogrammed decision processes are not challenged, and as long as you don't present as a 'target'. And of course people look after their family members. When that instinct goes away the human race will disappear in two generations.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying Taiwan has got everything nailed. I'm pointing out the difference between a society that believes there is always room for improvement - however flawed today's assessment of "improved" might be - and one which doesn't even consider the possibility. Taiwan has changed out of all recognition since I got here, and that includes the treatment of animals and nature in general. An incident like the one posted would have passed without remark 15 years ago. Today, it's a big issue. The Philippines, meanwhile, hasn't changed in the slightest.

Totally agree with the religion thing though. If the Philippines weren't a fiefdom of the Vatican State it would probably look a lot different.

But you can't make people care about shit without drawing blood from somewhere. It's gotta hit 'em. Otherwise, we're all just spinnin' our wheels over here.

This question preoccupies my thoughts quite a lot as I watch Average Pinoy Next Door get up in the morning, carefully aim his rusty shotgun at his foot, and start blasting away until it's time to hit up the sari-sari store for Tanduay on credit. How do you make people care about stuff - like mistreatment of animals or the environment - that quite clearly impacts their own lives? I reckon it is possible. It has been done, many times, in human history. I'm damned if I can figure out the common thread.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby super_lucky » 01 Jul 2016, 12:31

finley wrote: At the risk of going a bit OT - and bear in mind that (a) I live in a part of the country that even Pinoys think is badly f'ed up and (b) I spent three years sleeping through psychology lectures and like to catch up on what I missed:


super_lucky wrote:What struck me in terms of your description of Taiwan as capable of introspection and self-correction, it sounds vaguely similar to an examination process. Generally speaking, as we know, they are fond of tests. I don't really see that as a social construct; in fact, it's almost anti-social.


finley wrote:Not exactly. Introspection is the healthy reaction to shame. We all know Taiwanese people react badly to public shame, but private or self-generated shame produces the expected reaction: holding themselves up to certain standards and modifying their behavior. Consider Taiwan's bureaucracy, which looked pretty much like the Philippines in 1960 and has evolved into something world-class. Pressure from the top was obviously a factor, but this would not have worked if Taiwanese people didn't have that internal shame mechanism driving them to do better. Something similar happened in industry. And, in general, the process is ongoing. I'm papering over the cracks here - plenty of people sit in their blue cubicles playing with facebook or bullying their co-workers - but they're at the same modest background level of dysfunction you see in most offices.


Deep down in m' heart, I know you're right, but I can't help but feel that any Taiwanese sense of shame is just as superficial as their concept of face, and ultimately, right and wrong. Though the KMT did their best to trash the joint, I always reference the complete obliteration of Manila during WWII to any sort of infrastructural advantage enjoyed by Taiwan. If this joint had been bombed to shit, I'd wager it would today resemble the average barrio in Cubao. Right now, it's a slightly greener Detroit in terms of aesthetics. I do have to chuckle though at the idea of anybody in my immediate surroundings having any aspirations of consistent improvement. There's a reason they believe in status quo, I reckon.

finley wrote:In the Philippines, there are no standards held up as something to strive for. What happens today is by definition The Best of All Possible Worlds, because Filipinos built it. No improvement is possible or desirable. Therefore when people are shamed (or even feel atavistic twinges of self-generated shame), their natural reaction is: "But I did nothing wrong. There was no other course of action other than the one I took". The feeling is made to go away in the only way possible: by lashing out at the person responsible.

I would also say a good fraction of Filipinos (by no means a majority, but certainly way too many) have a serious personality disorder, somewhere on the BPD/NPD/psychopathy spectrum. The notable characteristics (in this context) are a complete lack of fear of consequences, including fear of bodily harm or death; inability to view others as living beings with thoughts and feelings; limited range of affect (emotions); emotional lability; black-and-white thinking; excessively positive assessment of personal abilities and importance. The relentless scamming in inevitable.

Filipinos basically rub along just fine as long as their preprogrammed decision processes are not challenged, and as long as you don't present as a 'target'. And of course people look after their family members. When that instinct goes away the human race will disappear in two generations.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying Taiwan has got everything nailed. I'm pointing out the difference between a society that believes there is always room for improvement - however flawed today's assessment of "improved" might be - and one which doesn't even consider the possibility. Taiwan has changed out of all recognition since I got here, and that includes the treatment of animals and nature in general. An incident like the one posted would have passed without remark 15 years ago. Today, it's a big issue. The Philippines, meanwhile, hasn't changed in the slightest.


Although I've only been poking around PH for seven-going-on-eight years, I've seen some change. Not a sea change, but despite my reservations and fears, many people believe in Duterte and they desperately want things to be different. Not better, different. I wish I could recount all of the discussions I've had with my wife about it. Ultimately, I look to her for signs. Has she changed? Yeah, in a way. She now believes that drug dealers are the number one threat to society - not the church, not the Sys and Cojuangcos and Aquinos. No, they can all fuck off and enjoy their wealth. It's those nasty drug dealers that are ruining the islands. That's new.


finley wrote:Totally agree with the religion thing though. If the Philippines weren't a fiefdom of the Vatican State it would probably look a lot different.


What Jesus allows people to do is fuck things up first, and then ask forgiveness. That, to me, is the Philippines: I fucked you but it’s OK because Jesus.

What I see in Taiwan is: “Yeah, I fucked you. So what are you gonna do about it?”

super_lucky wrote:But you can't make people care about shit without drawing blood from somewhere. It's gotta hit 'em. Otherwise, we're all just spinnin' our wheels over here.


finley wrote:This question preoccupies my thoughts quite a lot as I watch Average Pinoy Next Door get up in the morning, carefully aim his rusty shotgun at his foot, and start blasting away until it's time to hit up the sari-sari store for Tanduay on credit. How do you make people care about stuff - like mistreatment of animals or the environment - that quite clearly impacts their own lives? I reckon it is possible. It has been done, many times, in human history. I'm damned if I can figure out the common thread.


I feel less of human being for having long ceased to wonder or care how the problems will be solved short of mass extinction.
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Re: Taiwanese soldiers hang dog until dead

Postby tommy525 » 01 Jul 2016, 16:05

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/afav/201606270025.aspx

Gruesome vid here. You have to see it to see the depravity and lack of any feeling in the ones who did this. People who do this go on to kill human beings as they are SADISTS. I hope they get serious jail time.

To be honest I think they should be hanged by a chain just like this dog was. There is no room for SADISTS in our midst.

These are the assholes responsible. Think an apology is enough? Jail time for animal cruelty is more appropriate. These are SADISTS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t14ZgwJyPvA
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